Episode 31 – The Pursuit of Pleasure

In which we talk about the concept of Hedonism.
Recorded February 20, 2025.

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Show notes and links:
WATCH: Jordan Peterson’s First Speech at ARC 2025
The Unsettling of America
A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
The Colorful History of the Green Card | USCIS.
What are the Scout Oath and Scout Law? | Boy Scouts of America
A Beautiful Mind | Plot, Cast, Awards, & Facts | Britannica
About Adam Smith
William R. Forstchen
Girls At The Bar Inspire A Mathematical Miracle | A Beautiful Mind
Veritas Academy
Peterson Academy
Hillsdale College
Aviation Accidents – Statistical Reviews | NTSB

Transcript:

Jump to end
[clip] We’re in the 40th percentile of the lowest of
all education in the country. For 40 years of
its operation, now I think it’s 40 years, 50
years of operation, the Department of Education
has earned us, and it’s kind of the same thing
on hedonism, we have iterated to the decline.
And we’re the lowest educated society in the
world. As a result of having a Department of
Education. Just based on that criteria. The Department
of Education clearly must be hedonistic or power
-grabbing or whatever, which causes that iteration
and a decline step. [introduction] Hey, do you have a minute?
Yep, I have a minute. All right. For you and
everyone else listening, we are a dad and his
favorite daughter discussing things that are
of favorite importance to both of us. Unfortunately,
there’s not many other members of the family
that really care about it, but we like it. And
hopefully you will as well. We’re working for
trying to delve into ideas that are important
and find out how we can better our lives by using
them. And hopefully you can see that as well
and communicate back with us on how you have
a different opinion or a different direction
to move based on our subject topics. We look
forward to enjoying the time with you today.
The topic today is, it was a surprise topic for
me, so I sent you a little introduction to it.
I think the one word is hedonism. Hedonism. All
right. Right. And it relates to a number of other
things and try to figure out how we are hedonistic
or how we’re not hedonistic. Yeah, the opposite,
as I learned a few weeks ago, was ascetic, right?
Ascetic. We determined that in a previous conversation.
To be ascetic is to not care about the pleasure,
try to harm yourself, not harm yourself necessarily,
but not to be concerned with your feeling good
in the moment. Yeah. Sacrificing is the other
word. The word that Jordan Peterson uses in opposition
of hedonism is sacrifice, which is kind of asceticism.
Okay. You’re sacrificing your pleasure comforts
of the minute for a longer term good that you
potentially are looking for. Hedonism and sacrifice
or hedonism, asceticism. What’s the other word
like hedonism they came up with? To start our
conversation, I forgot the other word. Narcissism.
Yeah, narcissistic, saying I’m the center of
everything. Okay. Yeah, that’s related to hedonism,
and maybe it’s not exactly the same thing. And
it’s a degree beyond. Just like asceticism, a
degree beyond that is sacrifice. Okay. On the
compendium, on the pendulum, what is it called?
Continuum? Yeah. Of hedonism. And you can use
whichever word to identify that that you want.
You could say the continuum of sacrifice includes
hedonism on it. The continuum of asceticism includes
narcissism. So in that role, is it a good thing?
Is it a good thing to be hedonistic? I think
it is for the hedonist. I think they love it.
I think, you know, if you’re in that spot and
you’re able to do it, then… then it’s great.
It serves your need. One of the terms in narcissism
is a narcissistic supply. It serves their supply.
You get supplied. So yeah, that’s a term related
to narcissism. Have you heard that, narcissistic
supply? I don’t think that I have. I don’t think
so. So it’s just where you get your kudos, your
commendations, your positive reinforcement. Oh,
it’s the place that your supply, it’s like your
stash. Yeah. Or. Your stash of good. I mean,
the stuff that you’re, if you’re hoarding, you’re
hoarding your supply. If you’re gathering good
comments, it’s the quotes you’re gathering. Yeah.
Your supply is what you’re reading. It’s these
conversations. This is our conversational supply
for the week. Yeah. So if you get it from narcissism,
that seen as not a good supply source. If you
get your supply from sacrifice, can you get a
supply from sacrifice? You feel really good about
what you’ve done. Like maybe it can provide an
emotional elevation. And you’re like, yeah, that
felt really good. And so the more I sacrifice,
the more I feel good. Yeah. And that’s your supply.
The feeling good is your supply of what you’re
doing. be the sacrifice is the supply and the
feeling good is what you get from your supply.
No. I mean, like if you say, I have a supply
of ammunition. Right. Right. That’s what you
actually hold. You hold the ammunition. Your
supply of ammunition is being held by you. It’s
not. You purchased it. It’s not the purchase
of that ammunition that is your supply. It’s
the supply. It’s what you gain out of after it.
So you don’t have a supply of purchasing ammunition.
Well, yeah, but then the ammunition does something,
though. Like, you can use the ammunition for
your purposes. Like, the sacrifice would be the
ammunition that you’ve got stocked up, and then
when you make a sacrifice, you use that supply,
and then you get good feelings from it. Maybe
there’s another. Maybe we’re both right. Maybe.
Right. Well, we always are both right. But I
think it’s the supply, narcissistic supply. So
as narcissistic supply, it’s what you’re receiving.
It’s what you receive based on your thoughts
and your actions. So sacrificial supply. I don’t
think you have a certain amount of sacrifice
that you can do. You don’t have a certain amount
of narcissism you can do. So that’s, I think,
sacrifice and narcissism are on the same level.
Okay. You’re either operating in sacrifice or
operating in narcissism. And the supply comes
from both of those. You like the feeling more
that you get from being the center of attention
as opposed to being the one that’s putting attention
on others with a sacrificial idea. You know,
I want anonymity. I want to remain anonymous
as often as possible. I don’t know where… Well,
you were explaining what narcissistic supply
means and somehow that relates to hedonism. Is
hedonism a supply or is it an effect? You operate
in hedonism so you can gain a supply. Hedonism
describes the characteristic of a person or an
individual. And that characteristic, they do
that. They participate and play that role because
it creates a supply. So there’s a hedonistic
supply. So you’re involved in the things you
do and you operate the way you operate so that
you can receive supply from that, which is, you
know, the definition of hedonism, I believe,
is immediate gratification or pleasure in the
moment. Yeah. Something like that. You’re searching
after your immediate gratification. And so that’s
your supply. Your actual supply is the gratification
you get from it, the feelings you get, the accolades
for being the center of attention. I need to
relate it. I don’t know. if hedonism is pride
in itself. Because pride is the other thing that’s
related there. Well, narcissism is clearly the
center of attention. I think pride must relate
to both of them. Okay. I’m proud of what I do.
I’m proud of where I am. So you’re selecting,
and maybe pride is just part of being a hedonist.
If you’re in a hedonistic characteristic, it’s
because you’re proud that you’re there. Yeah.
Do you think someone could be hedonistic but
not like that they’re that way? Like feel like
they’re out of control and they’re not proud
of it? So feel like they should repent, feel
guilty about hedonism? Yeah, maybe. Would a hedonist
ever feel guilty about his hedonism? Or would
they not be a hedonist anymore? Just that mental
switch changes. Changes whether they’re hedonistic
or addicted. Like maybe if you don’t want to
be a hedonist, then you’re an addict, actually.
If you can feel any amount of guilt, any tinge
of guilt towards it, then it’s an addiction,
not a hedonistic trait. Maybe. Yeah, someone
who says, I’m just a hedonist. I’m a heathen.
A heathen. Maybe heathens are hedonists. I don’t
know. I don’t know about that. I’m a something.
What are you if you’re a hedonist? Pleasure seeker.
I’ll use that as heathen. A heathen would do
that. I bet that is. I don’t know. We have to
figure out what a heathen is first, really, before
we can say. AI says a heathen is generally taken
to be a number of pagan religions. It’s just
a religion. Not necessarily. A heathen is somewhat.
Sometimes associated with more sensual or pleasure
-seeking, but primarily refers to someone who
practices a mainstream religion outside the dominant
Abrahamic faith. Mm -hmm. Heathen is just where
your faith is based. Yeah, it’s like a Mormon
or a Protestant or a heathen, right? Right. The
heathen would be the pagan rituals as opposed
to, you know, someone who believes in mythology
as opposed to a god. Yeah. To pantheism. Yeah,
some of those religions it says here are actually
quite ascetic, renouncing physical pleasure altogether.
So you can be a heathen in a fully ascetic, pleasure
-renouncing way. Yeah. They’re not necessarily
combined. Okay. There’s not a group of people
that you can say are hedonistic. The hedonists,
you could say they are. But outside of that,
though. Okay. So would a hedonist, and we were
trying to talk about guilt, would they ever feel
guilty or like they’re on the wrong side of the
law or morals in a society? Would they feel bad
about it? So the question really is, is there
an unintentional or undesired hedonistic way?
Because I think if somebody wants to be hedonistic,
they’re not feeling bad about what they’re doing.
They’re like, I’m living the life I want. And
they don’t feel bad about it at all. Right. And
I’m thinking they can’t feel bad about it. If
they start feeling bad about it, then they’ll
start viewing that hedonism as addiction, like
you pointed out. Yeah. And then it’s something
that you have to try to get out of yourself.
You know, you’re going to use asceticism to get
rid of that addiction of hedonism. Anyone operating
on that scale wants to be there. And that’s why
I kind of associate it with pride, that they
have pride in it. Also the ascetic. Has pride
in his asceticism. Yeah. That person is happy
that they are where they are. Pride encompasses
the whole thing. That’s maybe the second word
I wanted to talk about. And hopefully it’ll come
out in the conversation why I brought up pride.
But pride is on the whole spectrum. You can be
proud of your asceticism just as much as you’re
proud of your hedonism or your narcissism or
your service to mankind. Pride is just saying,
I did this. So it’s not necessarily a hedonistic
trait. Pride is a trait completely outside of
whether you’re hedonistic or not. So hedonism
would be an, yeah, it really doesn’t have any,
not even an example of pride. Okay, so that’s
where we start. Is hedonism good or bad? We can
only speak from where you and I are. Like individually,
myself, I say I would not be a hedonist. I don’t
want to be that, right? What do you say? Would
you want to be… Except when you’re hungry.
Are you necessarily hedonistic when you’re hungry?
Yeah, well, depends on the resources that I have
in my, like where I’m at. Like, can I go and
eat right now because I’m hungry or do I need
to wait? I am hungry right now, right? Literally.
You’re not going to go eat. But I’m not going
to stand up and go eat because I know that…
When I eat while we’re recording, it makes it
sound really weird. So, I mean, it definitely
sounds like I have food in my mouth. So I am
not hedonistic when I’m hungry because I choose
sometimes to wait. To delay. You can delay. You
can sacrifice. And so that’s, I think, Jordan
Peterson’s description of sacrifice is delaying
that gratification, delaying that need. For a
higher something I’m valuing. Something of higher
value. We’ve talked about that before in our
what things that you’re not doing. It’s because
your values just you haven’t identified the value
that causes you to be able to do that. Yeah.
Something that you want to do, but you’re just
not doing it. You know, I’m not hungry. I don’t
get hungry until night after my workday is done,
usually. And that’s when you’re thinking about
it. Then I’ll think of food and I’ll say, am
I hungry? And then I’ll talk myself into being
hungry and actually eat something because I know
you can’t exist without food. Right. And I generally
can eat just fine. You’re delaying the gratification
of not eating by eating. And I think perhaps
I’ve delayed it long enough. I’ve delayed it
long enough in the day that I just don’t feel
hunger during the day. That’s not when I’m supposed
to be hungry, so I’ve delayed it. So maybe the
hedonism has been delayed there. And maybe it’s
hedonism on the other side. Maybe I just think
that other things during the day are more important.
Right. And so you’re delaying reading your book
at night so that you can just go and eat and
then, or something, whatever it is that you have
to wait to do because you have to eat. You know
you have to eat. So there are characteristics
of… being a hedonist that i don’t admire and
so i think it’s not a good bad kind of thing
to be like generally if you’re generally in your
whole life that’s if you could be identified
as such as that then you’re going to always be
looking for your own benefit in everything in
every first in every area of your life every
reaction i was listening to something on on trust
recently and Just identifying that, the propensity
of someone to always need to be the center of
attention or need to be involved. They were discussing
an office environment where one individual would
always, you know, if they were discluded from
it, they would have to include themselves in
the conversation, even the hallway conversations
or whatever project was being worked on. And
if someone else was doing it, if they… If they
weren’t there, they’d insert themselves and then
make their ideas the ones that are talked about
most. And you have the people that just have
to be involved. Is that a hedonistic trait to
have to be involved in everything? The FOMO,
fear of missing out. It depends on, like, maybe
that person feels like if they’re not involved
right now, then they’ll never know what’s going
on. Maybe they’re hedonistic and they want to
be involved right now. Regardless of whether
they’ll be clued in to the plans later or whatever.
Or maybe they really are afraid that if they’re
not involved now, then they’ll get pushed out
of the whole thing entirely. And that’s a different
thing than hedonism. It’s not that they’re wanting
to be immediate gratification of it. They’re
afraid of being kicked out completely. Yeah.
Afraid of being left behind. Because they don’t
have a connection to what’s going on right now.
So not that they’re looking for the pleasure
of it, but they’re afraid of the disconnection
that could happen. Right. And so consistently
pushing. So someone who looks like a hedonist
may just be fearful. They want to be involved
because they need to be involved. Yeah. That
might be it. So it’s not so black and white.
Maybe you can… You can have hedonistic tendencies
in some areas of your life. But, I mean, it’s
just like being a psychopath. Like, everyone’s
a little bit crazy. Right. So everyone’s a little
bit hedonistic somewhere. And, you know, even
with food, if you are hungry and you can eat,
you should. And you are serving yourself. Clearly,
you’re serving yourself. That’s the only way
you can eat is to serve yourself. Yeah. You could
be intravenously fed. But usually that doesn’t
happen in common society. 99 .8 % of society
doesn’t get fed intravenously. Anytime you need
food, even in a family where you’re trying to
raise someone to eat their own, you know, you
might feed them peas for a while when they’re
a young child. But as soon as possible, you have
them hold the spoon themselves. Right. I’m reminded
of the little bit of Abraham, not Abraham Lincoln.
Whose autobiography is right at the beginning
of the Harvard Classics? I don’t know. The order
of the books. It’s like the first volume, and
it starts with the autobiography of Benjamin
Franklin, maybe? Volume one. Let’s see what it
is. The autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. Okay.
Exactly. Yeah, that’s where it starts. So I read
that’s… You know, when you read the scriptures,
you start in Genesis, and then you know the first
chapter of Genesis really well, but then maybe
the rest of it… You’ve read him a number of
times. I know, yeah. So I know the first couple
pages of Benjamin Franklin’s autobiography really
well. And in there, he says, it’s a good thing
to, whenever you have the opportunity to eat,
you eat. Just do it, because you don’t know,
really, when your next meal is going to come.
So be hedonistic with your food. If it’s there,
if there’s food, eat it. Be hedonistic with your
food. But that’s like fear of missing out, though.
Like, I’m going to eat now because I am afraid
that in the future maybe I may not get any food.
And if you think circumstantially, the food’s
in front of you, you have the opportunity to
eat because you’re supposed to eat as opportunistically
or… predisposed you’re predisposed to eat now
because the food is prepared for you so eat while
the iron’s hot um what is the iron’s hot that’s
another colloquium but it it’s not eat it’s strike
i think it’s strike it strike when the iron’s
hot because it’s a strike when the iron’s hot
oh yeah that’s right because it’s it’s a blacksmith
thing yeah strike when the iron’s hot yeah that’s
what it is Do things when it’s time, when the
opportunity is there in front of you. Do it,
yeah. When it’s time to do it. Benjamin Franklin
spent a lot of time, he was focused on values
and thinking. He thought his life, thought through
his life. And that’s kind of the model we’re
trying to accomplish here, right? To be able
to think through our life instead of just live
it. Instead of just let it happen to you. Yeah,
and not even pay attention to it, you know, but
pay attention to what’s going on. He identified
13 virtues that he wrote about and talked about
for years. Yeah, it’s living beyond him quite
famously and appropriately. Those things that
he thought were important in his life. And we
probably are changing those a little bit. He
didn’t even have a phone. Something that you
had no idea what all this technology was in a
part of his life. Technology in his day was the
ropes that moved the sails up and down. Yeah.
As much as he wrote, though, I think if he had
a telephone, he’d be on it all the time. He’d
just be calling up everybody. Yeah. As many letters
as he wrote all the time, right? Imagine what
his podcast would be like. We should ask AI to
produce a podcast from Benjamin Franklin. Benjamin
Franklin in his voice. Well, I don’t know if
they could in his voice, but you know what we…
His actual voice, but his… With his words.
His literary voice. His literary voice he could
use, for sure. The way he says things. The way
he wrote things. Poor Richard’s statements. Feed
it everything he wrote that we have and tell
it to produce a podcast. That would be amazing.
I would listen to it. Well, yeah. Because you’ve
read him 10 or 12 times. At the start of the Harvard
Classics. So hedonism necessarily isn’t a bad
thing. You use it appropriately. It’s just a
tool to use. It’s a tool to use. If it becomes
the largest part of your life, it’s the same
thing as being overemphasized in anything. Using
something too much, you’re not moderating it.
Gluttony, maybe? Gluttony. Well, gluttony of
anything. I suppose gluttony is generally on
food. If you’re hedonistic anywhere, you’re gluttonous
in anything, you don’t want to do that. Gluttony
was mentioned in Wendell Berry’s book. What is
it called? We didn’t discuss it. I mean, we talked
about it maybe outside of this, but… You mentioned
it. I think I remember the name, Wendell Berry.
I mean, just look it up. The Unsettling of America,
maybe? I think maybe in that book. Oh, yeah.
It’s a book that I had… Years ago, it was about
agriculture. And I think at the end, he says
something about how he would raise his kids in
today’s society or something like that. And one
thing was raise them to recognize where gluttony
is and avoid it. Don’t be gluttonous. And it’s
not just a food thing. Yeah. So it’s more of
a moderation idea. Temperance. Temperance was
one of Benjamin Franklin’s. His virtues? Virtues.
Temperance. Being temperate in all things. So
take a moderate stance. Yeah. Okay. So where
we started with hedonism, I think it’s just a
trait. It’s not necessarily bad. If someone is,
though, displaying that and wanting to say, you
know, I don’t know, I had a gentleman in one
of my early careers. came in and said, I’m just
a pervert. You just said that? That was a weird
statement. Why would you say that you’re a pervert?
What does that mean to you? Off the cuff kind
of thing? Yeah, just off the cuff. He was just
talking about it. I was a loan officer. He was
applying for a loan. He says, no, I’m just a
pervert. Okay. Why? How does that describe anything?
It seemed like he was proud of it too. Yeah,
he was proud of it. As someone who may say, I’m
a hedonist. They’re just proud of it. It’s going
to be who they are. If you say, you know, you’re
just a hedonist, they’re either going to say,
no, I’m not. No, don’t. I’m just hungry right
now. Yeah. Or they’re going to embrace it. Yeah.
Or they embrace it and say, yes, I am. I’ve strived
my whole life. Give me that sucker. You’ve had
enough of that sucker. I’m going to eat the rest
of it. So hedonists would take candy from a baby
if they wanted it? Yeah. Yeah. Because the babies
don’t need it. They don’t care. Baby’s going
to cry anyway. Spoken like a true hedonist. Exactly.
They’re going to cry anyway. So how does it meet
our society? Where do we see, where could it
possibly bother us that there is a hedonistic
person? I think if that person somehow acquires
something that belongs to me or that I should
have gotten. Maybe, like I would feel. That’s
where, yeah, if something should be shared and
it’s not shared, there’s a hedonist we’re in
the game with. And they’re not going to share.
They’re not going to talk to us. They’re going
to talk at us, but not talk with us, not ask
our opinion of anything. It’s all their opinion.
That’s kind of rules to the narcissist. But the
other word that Jordan Peterson uses is power
in relation to hedonism. That you’re collecting
power. You’ve got all the, you’ve got to be in
control. Your control has to be there. And that’s
why it ties to narcissism as well. And that’s
in this speech that he performed at, where was
it? Some place that starts with A? At the ARC
conference. Yeah. What does ARC stand for? ARC.
It’s just happening this week. Oh, it’s right
now, huh? Yeah. Right now. These are live discussions.
That was his Monday. Academy? No, Academy. For
Responsible Citizenship. responsible alliance
for responsible city yeah so this is the second
year they’ve done that in london okay it’s it’s
a really good conference i’ve been really impressed
with the number of speeches that i’ve seen from
that so far like the who who is on stage not
the quantity of speeches but who is on stage
who and what they’re talking about yeah the the
topics the subject matter it’s it’s a convention
that you go to sometimes you go to a convention
and 20 of the speeches that day had no connection
to. You’ll find the four that you really liked.
This is like all 20 are really likable things
to me, probably to you too. You should look at
it and see if there’s any interest. I’ve been
really impressed by two or three, and I don’t
want to talk about any of the other ones here.
They may come up in other future discussions
as it connects to what we’re talking about. But
this one, that was the keyword that he used in
that speech was hedonism. Is hedonism bad or
something? I don’t remember what the… title
exact, why hedonism is bad or something. But
he related it to the power structure of the world.
And he says, we’re probably in a place now, we’ve
talked enough about life, the conversation of
this great conversation that we’re involved in
has touched enough of who we are and what we
know. And we’ve described things psychologically
and biologically and everything enough that we
can make this determination now. that hedonism
isn’t the way to go. And he’s went back and said,
sacrifice is the other half, the other side of
that. We need to be more sacrificial and more
temperate in Benjamin Franklin’s words. But sacrifice
is what he says he gets out of the Bible stories.
The learning from that is it’s lending towards
a sacrifice, sacrificial type mentality, more
asceticism rather than seeking for power. The
quote that he put in there that I really liked,
it says, hedonism will always iterate to decline.
What does that mean? So those two words, iteration,
is something that I’ve looked at in a while.
And does it mean something to you, anything to
you right now? Because we haven’t discussed it.
Iterate, like it emphasizes it maybe. There’s
a fly. Hold on. Where did it go? My house is
infested with gnat flies, and I feel like I just
want to not have house plants anymore because
that’s the only way to get rid of them. Get rid
of your plants. Get rid of your plants to get
rid of your gnat flies because, I mean, I’ve
been doing some things over the last few months
to try and get rid of them, like the Internet
says, to do sticky traps and feed the… water
the soil with bacteria stuff that kills the larvae
and whatever. And it’s just not working. So I
might just have to throw out the plants. It’s
not working fast enough. Well, yeah, three months.
I mean, come on. Do you live in a greenhouse?
No, I only have three plants. Plants all over?
I only have three. And one of them, they only
live in one of the plants. So maybe I just toss
out the one plant. That’s easy. Yeah, just get
rid of that plant. Get another one that’s like
the other ones. So somehow it’s breeding the
flies. You’ve got to find the hospital. I’ve
always done that when there’s flies or something.
And if you found the one plant, the hospital
for it, the one that is, what, iterating? Iterating
flies, yeah. That’s what it is. Iterating flies.
The iterating plant. You’ve got to get rid of
that one. But that’s the one that I want to keep
out of all of them. Well, just iterate. You’ve
got to replant it in different soil. Maybe. Yeah,
maybe I need to just completely rinse it off.
Change its ground. That stuff, yeah. Yeah. So
there’s something in the soil that’s continuing
to cause the decline into flyhood. So you can
iterate. There is a thing. You can iterate virtuously,
have a virtuous cycle of iterating to a more
positive, higher standpoint every time. A roller
coaster that’s going up or, you know, a… Whatever.
You’re always iterating positively. Or you can
iterate negatively every time you cycle around
something. Every time you have a conversation,
it takes you further, deeper, deeper, and more
depressed. Anytime you meet that person, you’re
becoming more depressed. You’re iterating to
a deeper level. Okay. Iteration has to do with
operating something repeatedly. Yeah. To say
or do again or again and again. Yeah. So it’s
the repetition of something, of some process
of being a hedonist repeatedly and saying, I
love that. I want that cycle. And what Jordan
Peterson says is from actuality, actually, it’s
a iterates to decline every time. You can never
advance with hedonism. And he says, power is
on that same scale. If you’re focused on power,
you’re always going to iterate to decline. Sacrifice
is the other side. You’re always iterating to
a higher platform, to a better position. If you
delay, if you sacrifice the current moment for
something future, that something future is always
going to iterate you higher each time you do
that. Be a virtuous cycle. Okay. Jordan Peterson’s
position on hedonism and reaching for power all
the time, is that the other part of hedonism?
Yeah. That’s part of hedonism. That’s the reason
hedonism is there is because you want to gain
power. Right. So he’s saying it’s objectively
bad. It’s not a good thing to do because it’s
going to lead to decline. What if you want decline?
What if you want that? It’s like, ta -da, here
it is. This is how you do it. What if you like
decline? Is that possible? What if, like, say
you’re running a country? And someone says, listen,
I want you to be super hedonistic because we
need to set everything in a downward spiral in
order for this some future grand plan to happen.
So we’re going to make it really bad right now.
And that’s what we want. You want to blow your
society up? I want to just ruin everything. We’re
going to let all kinds of illegal aliens come
into the country so that we can… Maybe. Or
we’re going to kick out all of the illegal immigrants
and completely ruin our melting pot society and
ruin everyone’s trust and feelings of security
and whatever. We’re going to get rid of all of
that. Like all of the bad things of kicking out
illegal immigrants, right? I mean, it could be
good or bad, like depends on where your position
is. If you’re an illegal immigrant, then you’re
obviously feeling not very secure and afraid.
And I mean, you probably don’t want to go back
to your home country because you left there for
a reason. So you were hoping that you could find
safety and security here in America, but nah,
guess not. Right. So in relation to hedonism,
is the… Throughout the thing, if you use illegal
immigration or immigration, migration is the
way they talk about it. Societies migrate and
you’ve got to not quell that migration. The migration
has to happen. So they’re just facilitating it
by opening the borders and allowing the migration
to immigrate into the U .S. From a globalist
standpoint, that makes perfect sense. And it’s
not hedonistic. Well, maybe it is hedonistic
because they’re saying, Let’s serve the world
the way the world needs served. The air blows
through and the jet stream migrates through the
US without any problem. Let’s just let people
migrate through the US just like that. Easy enough.
So let’s open it up and be completely open. And
you’re hedonistic if you think that you want
closed borders and let the air flow through,
but not let people flow through. You’re going
to stop migration in this little piece of the
planet. Stop the movement of people? What would
happen, do you think, what would happen if we
just granted citizenship to everyone that’s here
right now? In the world? No, everyone that’s
here in our country, that’s present. That’s amnesty.
Yeah, everyone that’s here. We know it would
happen, and that’s what did happen before. Oh,
really? What? Tell me about that, because I need…
In 83, you weren’t born yet. I missed that history
lesson. Yes, you weren’t born yet. I think it
was 83, Ronald Reagan. was just put in and he
granted amnesty. It’s amnesty. And you’ve heard
the word amnesty. They’ve talked about that.
But that’s what it is. You give amnesty to any
illegal aliens, anyone who’s already here. Grant
them amnesty so they have their path to citizenship
is immediate. Now they can just go and take the
tests and be naturalized citizens and it’s fine.
So there’s no… It eliminated all the illegal
aliens at the time. No one’s illegal anymore.
We got rid of all of our illegal aliens. They’re
all… Yeah, all the illegal aliens disappeared
because we offered them amnesty. And so that
was the ploy. That was what was supposed to have
happened. But because the reason they were putting
on it right now, this is just my understanding
of it. In the 80s, Ronald Reagan did it as a
Republican, but it benefited the Democrats 100
percent. Because California, he was elected a
governor of California as a Republican governor
and everything. California was a great place.
But all these illegal immigrants came in and
they were centered around. California and New
York, you know, on the coasts. And so he granted
amnesty to them, say 300 million or something,
some number of people or yeah, 3 million. I don’t
know how many, it wouldn’t have been 300 million
because we only have 20 million illegal immigrants
in here right now, something around that. It
would have been 3 million or so people, but that
tipped the scales because they saw that they
voted for the society that would. serve their
hedonism, let’s say. They wanted the handouts
of the government. So an illegal immigrant comes
in, and if they’re given handouts, then they’re
going to vote in the democratic realm that’s
the more socialist idea and concept of giving
them something. So that’s what changed California
to a democratic state, to a full blue state was
the amnesty. And then you couldn’t stop that.
So that’s what the plan was. It’s part of the…
proposal of opening the borders and letting migrants
come in and put them in the states that then
when they got amnesty, if they had stayed in
control, amnesty would have been issued is the
idea, and that they would all have a path to
full citizenship. And that would turn everything
blue states because now you’ve got all the people
that think that line and they are socialist in
mentality already because they want handouts
as opposed to… sacrificing and working for
something. They’re more hedonistic in saying,
if I can get it now for free, I’m not going to
work. I’m just going to receive my welfare check
and live simply. I can live simply. And they
can call it asceticism. And be proud of it. I
don’t need a car. I can walk or I can go and
steal a car if I need to use one. That’s the
general, the way I see the general, what, economy
around immigration. is you want the people to
come in so that they can be convinced that the
socialists, you know, these programs are something,
we’re giving you all this money so that you can
survive. To be a nationalist. If you’re a nationalist
and you say, I want to have borders on my country,
I want to serve the people who are actual citizens
of this spot of land, and let’s serve them and
let’s make sure that no one else can come in
that’s illegally here utilizing our services.
We want to provide services to us instead of…
The neighbors that want to come in and live with
us. Is that hedonistic? Is it saying I want all
of the pleasure and resources for my family inside
my country? That could be termed as hedonism.
Maybe. Yeah. All of our immediate resources are
going to serve us and not someone else. We’re
not going to share it with the world first. America
first. We’re going to serve America first. And
then if there’s something extra, we’ll branch
out and help the migrations. But they’ve got
to do it legally. There is a legal system involved
in migrating into the U .S., and plenty of people
do it. I wonder how many people become legalized
every, I don’t know how often they do that ceremony.
Do they do it every day? Is there a legalization
ceremony every single day? I mean, I imagine
it’s limited. Yeah, the naturalization process
numbers, see if there’s anything that says how
many are naturalized. How long does it take?
18 to 24 months, so generally about two years.
Though I know people that have taken 10 years
to go through the process. Yeah. Why does it
take so long? Naturalized citizens in the U .S.
by year. Let’s see what this says. Immigration
statistics, 900 ,000 a year, about. So nearly
a million people a year in the naturalization
process. Number of immigrants, 15 million. No,
I don’t know what that number is. Yeah, millions.
So 15 million immigrants per year. That’s a lot.
That’s naturalized. 15 million naturalized immigrants?
Yeah, there’s a lot. And it’s been down as low
as 5 million in the 70s. So that’s what that
chart I’m looking at. There’s got to be like
a video or a website somewhere that explains
why all of the illegal immigrants aren’t becoming
legal immigrants. Like, why are they remaining
illegal? And, like, can you come and live in
the United States while you’re going through
the naturalization process? Or do you have to
stay in your home country? Yeah, they’re living
here. That’s the green card, which is actually
blue, I think, or yellow. It’s the green card.
You have the green light to come and enter the
U .S. and work here. And you’re given a Social
Security number if you’re in the naturalization
process. You’re legally… entered in and you
do that with the visas the work visas or education
visas you can have the ability to come in and
you know it’s 15 million a year that’s a lot
that’s a lot of people that naturally do that
but right now we got 15 or 20 million that are
illegal which just means they you know catch
and release the catch and release program that
they were operating so they they find them they
identify yeah you’re you don’t have papers you
want to claim asylum then we’ll put you with
the judge. And then the judge, the court docket
is three years out. Right. But instead of saying
you wait three years in Mexico, is what the plan
was before, you’re welcome to just come on in,
do what you need to do. You’ve got a court date
in 2027. Make sure you show up to it. And then
we’ll determine if your asylum is granted or
if you’ll have to be deported at that time. But
you’ve got three years to just do what you want.
So enjoy it. And by the way, we’ll fly you to
New York and give you a nice hotel to live in.
I mean, well, you don’t want to bring people
in just to leave them on the street to die, do
you? Right. So you have to be caring and so you
have to buy them a hotel. So you buy it for $57
million. You buy the whole hotel and fill it
up with illegal immigrants that you’re waiting
for their court dates to appear. Because you’re,
what do you call that if you’re kind to people?
You’re empathetic to their needs. You’re compassionate.
You love people. You want to benefit everybody.
The hedonistic rule for that, though, the way
that they were doing it, the way I believe they’re
doing it still is just my interpretation, is
they were hedonistic. It was going to serve their
needs in the end completely and serve their needs
right now. They got to increase the government
rolls, increase the number of people here, increase
the costs, the expenses of the economy. That’s
what caused inflation as much as anything else
is spending. and excessive spending. So meeting
their immediate needs as a party or as a political
faction, meeting your immediate needs, it doesn’t
matter what it affects everybody else or the
other people. The part that you’re focusing on
is the part that you want to benefit. So they
wanted to benefit the migration, migrants, and
benefit the global economy. If you’re a globalist,
you’re going to benefit the global economy, and
it doesn’t really matter what you do to the local
people. To the citizens. So maybe that means
you’re hedonistic in whatever you’re focusing
on. Could that be a statement? Yeah. About hedonism?
I think maybe that’s just true for everyone.
Like if you’re focusing on something, then you’re
by definition hedonistic about it. Yeah. If you’re
feeding your immediate gratification on something.
I’m going to see what hedonism, the ethical theory
that pleasure in the sense of satisfaction of
desires is the highest good and proper aim of
human life. That’s hedonism. Highest good. So
if you determine that’s your highest value, the
satisfaction of desires, gratification. You have
desires. We all have desires. And we attempt
to locate those desires on appropriate principles,
on good values. And so if we figure that our
values are such, we’re hedonistic to those values.
We say, I’m going to hold these values as the
highest, my deepest held values. And if I’m operating
based on that, the sense of satisfaction, desire,
I want those desires to be satisfied for sure.
I’m going to satisfy my desires of help other
people at all times from the scout oath. So I’m
going to do that all the time. I’m hedonistic
in that venture. But could you be called a hedonist?
You’re, you’re serving, you’re others focused.
Outward serving, sacrificing everything for the
benefit of someone else. So I think the word
pleasure in hedonism makes a difference, that
the pleasure is the highest good. You can satisfy
your desires. You can have your narcissistic
supply, your supply of pleasure from hedonism
that keeps you happy and feeling good about yourself
and about what you’re doing. But even if you’re
serving others and you’re feeling good about
what you’re doing. I mean, you’re receiving pleasure
somehow. gaining pleasure, gaining pleasure from
that. Are you serving others because of the feeling
you get or because you don’t like, I mean, it’s
like the seven habits. Where’s your center? Like,
is this self -centered or is this community -centered
or is this principle -centered? I’m having a
big problem with that because I don’t know where.
the principles come from. Yeah, that’s my problem
too. You’re thinking that too. So it’s going
to be good when we get to that book and start
discussing it. Hopefully he opens that up as
you get down there. Because if you use your,
in just the way, your highest good and proper
aim, and if you identify that that’s a principle,
say, this is my deepest held value. I believe
this is a principle. We should do this. We should,
let’s just use the migration issue. We should
allow the world to migrate as it feels, as it
sees fit. And so I’m not going to get in the
way. It’s damaging to that system if we get in
the way and put up a border and say you can’t
migrate past this wall. That’s going to hurt
them. It’s going to hurt the whole process of
society. And just like the airflow, the jet stream,
we can’t put up a jet stream thing and say we
don’t want wind in the U .S. anymore. We’re going
to put up this jet stream wall and make the jet
stream go to Canada or Mexico. It’s never going
to go over the U .S. So that would… upset the
whole globe. If you tried to block out a piece
of the globe, it won’t work. Right. If you consider
that your highest value and you’re deriving pleasure
from allowing the globe to operate the way it
should with migration of people, then you can’t
put a wall. And if you do put a wall, then you’re
being hedonistic. You’re on the wrong side, putting
up the wall because you’re limiting that global
process. Right. You’re limiting something that’s
natural. It’s just It happens. It’s like saying,
I don’t want the butterflies, the monarch butterflies
that fly from Canada to Mexico every year across
the Midwest. We don’t want them flying in the
U .S. So if you can find some way to get from
Canada to Mexico, you can do it, but not through
the U .S. Right. Or if Missouri says, you’re
not going to fly through Missouri, you guys have
to go around. No monarch butterflies in Missouri.
Yeah. And you disrupt that, you completely screw
up everything about that. Natural process. About
the whole ecosystem. Yeah. The whole ecosystem
of the butterflies. Monarchs. And you could say
there’s a hunting season now. Any monarchs that
cross the borderline of Missouri, you can shoot
them with your pellet guns. Yeah. Or electroshock
or whatever you want to use. Use your blue light
electric killers. Enough of them probably die
to those things anyway because they get too close
to someone’s porch. All right. We were talking
about whether you should limit that. So hedonism
exists. And based on your perspective, you can
call anyone a hedonist or not. Yeah. Just like
we were saying. Right. It depends on where your
values are and how that lines up with someone
else’s values. And that’s why they term this
in the definition an ethical question. It’s which
side of ethics are you sitting on? Well, and
then people will say, well, let’s turn to the
original source of truth. Let’s open up the Bible
and find out what that says about it. But then
you run into the problem of who interpreted.
Who’s interpreting the words of the Bible? And
are we? Well, that’s, yeah, the interpretation
of it. And that’s what Jordan Peterson has said
after 40 years of psychoanalysis in his work
that way. And he’s taken this study for the last
10 years or so on 10 years, only eight years,
six years, maybe, since 2017. He’s really focused
on Exodus and then now going into the Gospels
and trying to figure out the real story of the
Bible and what it means. And he’s only pieced
that together in the last number of years. It
says in its sacrifice, it tends to be towards
the sacrifice to the greatest good. And that
points to what Stephen Covey talked about in
The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People that
we’re trying to read and we’ll discuss at some
point here in the next few weeks, what your core
principles are. What is your center? Correct.
He uses the word correct principles. How do you
identify correct principles? Right. Yes. And
do you use the Bible for that? If you use the
Bible, then you’ve got the interpretation of
that. Who’s going to tell you whether it’s correct
or not? Exactly. How do you know? Because just
that immigration issue and migration, immigration,
migration, what’s the correct principle in relation
to how societies and people migrate on the planet?
What’s the appropriate principle for that? How
do you determine it? I think that’s one thing.
discussed in the last couple weeks how someone
asked jordan peterson it was one of the questions
to him so how do you rectify that how do you
solve that problem he says well that’s a bigger
problem that’s going to take a lot more discussion
and work on that specific problem and i haven’t
thought that problem specifically whatever it
was i don’t remember what it was but trying to
identify the base underlying principle he’s been
working on this for 10 years and he’s barely
getting to it and thinking that sacrifices it
he may change that in the next year or two i
don’t know you don’t know When you get in the
conversation, where it’s going to end up. Yeah.
That’s why it’s hard to say this is the principle
you should operate on if you’re a principle -centered
person. Because what if tomorrow the principles
are not correct anymore? What if the presidency
changes and all of a sudden DEI was a correct
principle for 50, 60 % of the country, and now
50, 60 % of the country says DEI is definitely
not a correct principle? Let’s drop that completely.
And President Trump. stated. We’ve gotten rid
of DEI. It’s dead. It’s completely gone. It’s
dead. It’s never coming back. Right, right. It’s
never coming back. It doesn’t exist anymore.
DEI as a policy, as a principle, doesn’t exist
in this country. And he didn’t say all those
words, but he said it’s dead. That’s essentially
what it is that he said. So essentially saying
it can’t come back. We’ve eradicated it and it’s
gone. But still, there’s 40 % of the country
that still believes they want it and they believe
it’s a true principle. Did it stop being a correct
principle just because the presidency changed?
And did it start being a correct principle just
because the presidency moved to Obama and Biden?
And that mentality, did that make it a correct
principle? Or was it still an incorrect principle?
Or is it still a correct principle and we’re
just denying it? We’re denying it, right. This
choice that we have in life, the space between
stimulus and response, our responsibility, it’s
a heavy responsibility. Even, you know, talking
about something as simple as hedonism, should
you be or should you not be? What’s the principle
in regard to that, in regard to serving your
independent, immediate needs and desires? How
much are you supposed to focus on that? Well,
and if everyone is a little bit hedonistic in
some way, is that word even useful? Is it, can
you… I mean, it’s just a label. It’s just a
label to describe a way someone is. I mean, is
it an excuse or an explanation? Like, don’t worry
about that person. They’re just a little bit
hedonistic. Or I cannot spend any time with that
individual because they are a hedonist. Yeah,
their hedonism will take over the whole society.
We, as a group, we can’t include that person
because that person, it would become their me.
their main goal or the project would become theirs.
So the label is an explanation for why you treat
them differently than other people. And maybe
it’s an excuse for them to just be the way they
are. They’re like, hey, I’m a hedonist, so I’m
going to just get whatever I want when I want
it. And if they say that, it means that they
have pride in that, that they’re good. They’re
good with how they are. You’re good with how
you are. And from what the… indication from
jordan peterson was that will always iterate
to decline always so that person will will drop
out of society they won’t they’ll be a hermit
they’ll have to go off and live on their own
because no one can stand to be around them anymore
because they’re always just going to be to their
own thing they were working on the i don’t forget
what it’s called john nash the a beautiful mind
he he augmented game theory so the game theory
that’s what he was working on and In his thing,
he got a Nobel Prize in economics for the work
he did and all that. His statement, though, that
I remember from the movie is that Adam Smith
was wrong. So Adam Smith, who said, you know,
and he may have started writing, this was in
the 1600s or something, started writing that
people will do things for their own benefit.
And the game theory that… that John Nash came
up with was that, no, they’re going to pay attention
to the benefit of the group. They’re going to
add, instead of just a full hedonistic, my best
path is the path I’m going to follow. It’s the
best path for those around you. It’s the comparative
path to what else is out there. You’re going
to take the best comparative path for the group
as opposed to just yourself. And that’s going
to be the best path forward. So that addition
to game theory, that way of what’s right for
someone else, you’re able to think. broader and
i think that was jordan peterson’s statement
that we’ve thought about these things enough
now that we can make a determination that hedonism
always iterates to decline or determination of
how we want to live life what choices we can
make and so that’s why this alliance of responsible
citizenship no matter what country you’re in
wherever your citizenship lies you can be responsible
in it and we have the ability to piece together
all the All the knowledge in the conversation
that can make us the best people possible for
society. I’m listening to a book called One Second
After. I think that’s what it’s called. After
the baseball hit your head? One Second After.
It’s one second after an EMP, a major electromagnetic
pulse. And so far in the book, they don’t know
which country. shot the nuclear detonated nuclear
something in the atmosphere and caused the whole
country to to lose everything all of its power
to lock down yeah electronics stopped working
the power grid went down you’re just in the dark
and there’s a part so this guy has to get insulin
for his daughter the main character his daughter’s
type 1 diabetic and so he has to get he gets
into town and goes to the drugstore like that
the very next day and finds that the the pharmacist
is rationing the insulin like she’s got in her
head who in town is diabetic and how much do
they usually get and she can only give him five
vials out of the 40 that she has And he wants
it all. Like, that’s his first instinct. He says,
my daughter’s the most important. I’m going to
take it all. I need that. My daughter needs all
of this insulin. But she’s like, I’m sorry, I
can’t. I can’t give you it all. And if you die,
if you die, that’s okay with me. So he kills
her and takes it all. I don’t know. There’s that.
I mean, he doesn’t take it all. He comes to his
senses. He becomes not hedonistic. For a minute,
though, he’s like almost there. He’s going to
take it all. And he almost. You know, pulls this
gun like my daughter needs this. Pushes to the
power position that I have control here. You
don’t. Right. You no longer have control. Yeah.
That’s an example, an illustration of taking
the community first and over the needs of the
one person. Yeah. The needs of the many. Yeah.
It’s an interesting book, though. I’m really
enjoying it. So it’ll be interesting to find
out what they come up as the solution. As a solution
to the EMP. Those apocalyptic type. books. The
solution is something that we’re always doing
anyway. The ones that I’ve read, it’s easy to

It’s easy to see what the solution is because
it’s already there. Whatever. There was one that
I read recently that was a financial catastrophe.
And the financial catastrophe was solved just
by having buyers in the market. If you have buyers
in the market, it’s always going to solve the
sell -off completely. You have to have money
that’s willing to support it by being the buyer.
That’s the only way you’re going to stop a stock
market crash is if there are buyers to support
the bottom. And that’s how they solved it in
this book. There wasn’t any magic venture. It
was just supply and demand. You had to create
the demand. You create the demand so the supply
can be resolved. The oversupply of markets falling.
You know, it was nice to write a book, but it
really didn’t bring up any new information. So
I’m wondering if there would be any new information
brought up in that scenario.,of an EMP. And I don’t know
what the valid response is for that. Yeah. I
mean, it’s kind of illustrating the point of
how important it is to keep relations with other
countries going well. Like, you don’t want to
get to a point where a country’s like, well,
this guy is completely not paying any attention
to our needs. And so what we’re going to do is
completely disable. Their ability to do anything.
Their nuclear weapons. Well, that is our current
discussion, right? I mean, this country is in
that same position. Iran cannot have a nuclear
weapon. They’re not going to be allowed to advance
in their nuclear development any beyond right
now. They won’t be able to have it. What’s stopping
them from having it? They can’t. It’s illegal?
Is that what you’re saying? The supply of the
nuclear. whatever it is, the uranium, whatever
it is that takes it, that’s controlled. So you
control it so they can’t get it and they can’t
develop it themselves. You keep their factories
from being able to develop it themselves. So
the refined uranium, whatever it is that creates
an atomic bomb, atomic weapon. In legal avenues,
they’re not able to, but could they acquire uranium
on the black market? North Korea has it. North
Korea has that. And there shouldn’t be. That’s
why it’s important that you maintain the relations
with the countries that you know have that capability
so that those relations, you keep them in check
safely. Yeah. Politics. I mean, it’s just all
politics. It’s politics. And it’s geothermal
nuclear war. It’s playing that game. Right. But
it’s a game. It’s game theory. And you’ve got
to pay attention to everyone else. talk to them
and say, you know, your hedonistic view of this
doesn’t, you’re not going to control the world
if you do this, if that EMP blows up on the U
.S. And that’s another thing that President Trump
and Elon Musk, they were just recently interviewed
and identified, you know, if the pillar of the
U .S. falls, I think Elon said this, if the pillar
of the U .S. economy falls, the whole roof goes
down. No one is going to survive that. You’re
not going to, there won’t be an economy anywhere
else if the U .S. economy. breaks. So we’ve got
to make sure this keeps working. That’s why we’re
supporting, we’re doing everything we can to
keep that economy going, because I can’t just
say my companies are completely valid and we’re
just going to continue. If the U .S. breaks,
my companies don’t exist either. There’s no rockets
leaving the planet if the U .S. doesn’t exist.
Right. That’s kind of globalist, right? We can’t
let Russia’s economy die either. I mean, wouldn’t…
Wouldn’t the same thing happen if another major
economy crashed like that? Depending on how huge
they are, how big of an economy it is. Like Iraq.
Well, International Monetary Fund, if countries
go through hyperinflation, Venezuela, they do
their crazy thing. Venezuela is not big enough
to affect the world, but they were big enough
to affect themselves. And they went through a
hyperinflation and their currency is completely
devalued and they have to figure out how to live
again. Iraq went through that same thing with
their dinar. That’ll happen. If it happens with
the reserve currencies of the world, the major
ones, then it can stop everything. The United
States isn’t the only one. If that happened,
it would destroy everything. It is the power
of strength, and that’s what Elon was saying.
Wouldn’t matter. I mean, anyone else, if the
United States roof collapses and we go into hyperinflation
and bankruptcy and the dollar is completely decimated,
the world would not be able to, it’d be like
an EMP going off. Everything just shuts down.
Everything would shut down. It would be really
bad for a lot of people, for everybody. So they’re
trying to shut things down a little bit at a
time. This is going through. Using our current
word in regard to Elon Musk, is he hedonistic?
The accusations against him are that he’s just
a hedonistic, power -grabbing billionaire that
wants to take over. And he’s doing everything
to benefit his companies only, and he’s only
going through this audit so that he can make
sure his contracts get to the top of the pile.
And that’s what people are saying is the whole
reason he’s doing that? That’s the battle against
Elon. He’s hedonistic. Because he’s a company
owner. But he described it, and I like the way
he described it in that interview. It was with
Sean Hannity. In the interview, he said, I’m
not, you know, my companies won’t exist if this
thing goes down. That’s why I’m focusing my efforts
on this. We’ve got to make sure that this economy
stays strong and that fraudulent and incorrect,
you know, fraudulent payments and waste is eliminated
so that we can get this to be as strong as it
should be. That way. Everything else can continue
to operate. Well, wouldn’t that still kind of
be hedonistic? Because if the U .S. economy is
as strong as it can be, then, of course, his
companies are going to benefit greatly from that.
Everybody else’s are going to as well, but his
goal is to keep it good. Speaking of game theory,
and John Nash’s addition to it, was that you’re
still concerned about what you do, but you don’t
give. You don’t get your best benefit by just
pushing your best benefit button. You’ve got
to push the best benefit of everyone around you.
So it opens it up to the society and community.
And so I think that principle of game theory,
he’s operating, Elon Musk is operating appropriately
in it because he’s concerned for the whole picture.
He sees how big the picture is. His budgets are
in the, you know, his net worth is in the 300
billions. But the U .S. national debt is $26
trillion, $32 trillion, something like that.
It’s way beyond him. He’s playing in a game that
he doesn’t control. He controls a measly $300
billion. And the US has a trillion dollars going
out on all these budgets. I mean, they’ve got
a trillion dollar annual budget or $3 trillion,
something like that. It’s a lot. He said it’s
much bigger than anything he’s operating. And
he’s not trying to control it. He’s not trying
to become a trillionaire. He may be the first
trillionaire, but… that no one’s gotten that
point yet. He’s only a third of the way there.
So hedonistically, that might be his goal. And
if he was pressing for that, then you would try
to overthrow the government. Instead of building
rockets to shoot off to the moon, he would have
built cannons to shoot at California and New
York and take them off the face of the earth.
And then he could take over the country and the
$2 trillion budget. But no one’s trying to do
that. There is no coup. trying to take over government
positions. And by being transparent, they’re
explaining it. And I believe they’re explaining
it well. I’m sure that people who have a different
feeling won’t feel that that’s a good explanation.
Yeah. I mean, it seems extreme and fast. Like,
we’re not easing into a better way for our country.
We’re diving headfirst, it feels like. It feels
like… One thing after another is happening.
We’re cutting. What is an idiom that we could
say? I don’t know. Cutting off your nose despite
your face. I don’t know. Maybe. Yeah, we’re diving
in. We’re not dipping our toe and changing the
temperature of the water a little bit to make
it comfortable. We’re telling the frog. If it’s
the right thing to do. So hedonism says that
you believe it’s the aim of human life. It’s
the right aim. If the right aim is to eradicate
fraud and misuse, misspending, misappropriation
of funds. And a lot of things they found in USAID
is they found things that are supporting clearly
DEI global initiatives. And they said, we just
changed that principle. So all of that stuff
that you were allocated for and you were… under
the old guise that that’s the appropriate principle.
We just changed the principle. It’s no longer
a correct principle to support globalism and
also no longer a principle to select DEI mentality
or inclusion. So getting rid of those two things,
all of this stuff now is a misappropriation of
funds. So we’re stopping it. We’re just going
to, is it better to let it all flow out and take
four or five years to slow it down and say, you
know, let’s, if someone retires, let’s just not
replace them. So that’s attrition. Do it through
attrition. Or if you identify the principle has
changed, and let’s say you were of a no -religious
standpoint and you joined a religion all of a
sudden, and that religion has these tenets that
it operates by. You know, don’t drink any coffee
or tea, or, you know, you do this with your money.
You’re not going to curse anymore. So if there
are tenets of that religion, should you say,
well, I’m going to curse just until it naturally
falls out of me, or… Do you change immediately
and say, in order to be baptized in this religion,
I’ve got to stop these things. So I’m going to
stop them right now, quickly. I’m going to do
it quickly. It may take a month. It may take
six months. But I’m going to do it as fast as
I can so that I can enjoy the benefits of living
in that new society that I believe now is one
of my strongest values. Yeah. Well, when we had
talked about the election back in… September.
And we were talking about the platforms and I
was saying, I mean, I’m a libertarian. I appreciate
that platform much more than I appreciate the
other ones. But we were kind of coming to the
conclusion that no matter what, no matter who
got elected, the change is going to be so gradual
that we’re not even going to notice. But now
that’s appearing completely not what’s happening.
Like, I mean, couldn’t we have removed DEI by
changing people’s hearts about it instead of
just saying, okay, this is it. This is the done
deal. How do you treat the people’s hearts? And
clearly there’s, there may be riotings. There
are certainly demonstrations at this point. People
are still crying over the fact that you guys
are telling me that you don’t, I don’t have any
place to be. They still feel that way. They need
to feel that they have a place to be. And so
that maybe that communication hasn’t been fully
done yet. That’s what’s going to take time. What
my statement was, my feeling last September and
now still is, is that you’re not going to have
an economic upheaval based on the change of the
political environment. Doesn’t matter who’s elected.
The economy is going to continue to flow. Yeah.
We don’t have to worry about our money. And here’s
the thing that I’m kind of impressed with the
way the market is responding to this in general.
is that it’s supportive. It’s not breaking apart.
It’s not going to a depressive type state. There’s
ups and downs and it’s fluctuating more. The
volatility is higher now than it was, but only
slightly. And the general mood is still stable
as opposed to going to instability or depression.
So I like that. And I think it’s supporting.
And that’s what I mean by the slowness or the
speed of it. It’s not going to upset the apple
cart. Apple cart’s still going to have all the
apples on it. And it’s shaking a little bit,
but it’s not falling over and spilling, whatever
that term means, upsetting the apple. The other
thing that’s happening with their being so quick
is all the places that those funds were flowing
are now not flowing to those places. So, and
if it was fraud or if it was misuse of funds,
all those misuse places are no longer getting
their funds and they’re having to close down.
And so you’re going to have areas of society
that are completely. eradicated but supposedly
and ostensibly they were all illegal operations
supposedly fraudulent operations so if we’re
not supporting fraud anymore do you want to continue
supporting fraud so that it’s easier to ease
out of it or do you just you say let’s put that
fraud in prison let’s imprison it and cause it
to not operate anymore starting today yeah well
and this come brings to mind another idiom, throwing
the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah. I’ve wanted
to talk about that for a long time. Really? Yeah,
yeah. Because it has religious ties, right? We
need to relate it to this. Yeah, throwing the
baby out with the bathwater. So what’s your view
of what the baby is? Because that’s my question
is, who’s the baby and who’s the bathwater? So
I don’t care one way or the other about the Department
of Education, but I guess that is being, something
is happening with that, right? What do you know
about in the last day or two? Well, no, nothing’s
happened in the last day or two. It’s defunded
or something? No? Nothing? No. Is it going to?
They just barely started looking at it. We haven’t
got any reports. And I, you know, the transparency,
as soon as they do get reports out of there,
certainly it’ll be there. I mean, I’m watching
the Doge feeds and identifying, you know, what
they’re finding now. They haven’t really started.
They’ve just been open to it. They’re just starting
that process. So preemptively I saw a social media influencer not not
like a teenage young 20s lady that’s this is
a a mom who’s got kids in in college and in high
school and she said you don’t you don’t realize
all of the good things like sure maybe there’s
some bad things that the the department of education
is is wasting money on but if they cut the funding
of the whole department these are all of the
good things that you’re going to lose too and
that’s like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Like, we’re going to get rid of the bathwater,
but we’re also going to, we’re just going to
dump it all out. So let’s identify the baby in
the bathwater in the Department of Education.
Okay. Okay. So the bathwater is something that
you are using to cleanse the baby with. Okay.
It’s the process, so to speak. The bathwater
is just the process. And it’s the thing that
you’re collecting all the dross. First, we have
to talk about the actual analogy. Everything
that’s bad off of that baby is moved into the
bathwater. You keep the good thing. You keep
the thing that you love and you care for, and
you’re washing it off. You’re cleaning off the
filth and the fraud and the deception off of
it into the water, and then you want to dump
the water out because you don’t like that anymore.
You want to get rid of it. And so her statement
of that, throw the baby out with the bathwater,
if you determine the baby is valuable, the assumption
in that is that this is a baby that is beneficial
to us. Right. Right. And specifically, like,
the way that it, the Department of Education,
some of the funding makes it possible for kids
with learning disabilities or special needs have
a, you know, environment that helps them, you
know? Right. There’s funding that allows an aid
to be brought in for each individual person.
And that’s the way I understand the program works
right now. So if there’s some special needs person
in a high school, they can be in the society
of the high school, but there’s an individual
aid that’s paid for by federal funding that allows
that. That aid doesn’t have to be paid by federal
funding. It could be paid by state funding or
even school district. That position is seen as
valid. It’ll stay. There’s no reason that that
should be declined or eliminated just because
federal funding drops. But it will be eliminated
until funding comes back through state or…
county or school department yeah school district
like it’s it’s gonna drop yeah it’s gonna drop
and it’ll be absent until something else happens
The title of your book is the second after it’ll be gone for a second
it’ll be gone for one second and they’ll no one
will know the difference that person will still
get the check they don’t get this check from
the federal government The district gets the
check from the federal government and they get
it in January and they pay it out to that person
all year long. So the money’s there. It’s still
there. The next second that the federal drops
it, the state picks it up. The tax benefits will
roll right to where it needs to be. Any essential
program is going to stay there. The only reason
a program will be cut is if it’s seen to be…
Non -essential. I relate this baby bathwater
to cleaning potatoes. So if you get a potato
that you’re cleaning off the dirt off the outside
of it, but if you see that there’s rot inside
of it, it’s not a potato you’re going to keep,
you’re going to throw that baby out with the
bathwater. Absolutely. You don’t want to keep
that rotten potato in your group of potatoes
that you’re trying to create. So it’s not just
one baby. The Department of Education, there
is a baby there, but the value of that kid is
being determined by the, we’re in the 40th percentile
of the lowest. the lowest of all education in
the country. For 40 years of its operation, now
I think it’s 40 years, 50 years of operation
in the Department of Education, has earned us,
and it’s kind of the same thing on hedonism,
we have iterated to the decline. And we’re the
lowest educated society in the world. As a result
of having a Department of Education. Just based
on that criteria, the Department of Education
clearly must be hedonistic. or power grabbing,
or whatever, which causes that iteration and
decline status. We want to change it to a virtuous
status and share the sacrifice, throw the baby
out, because this baby hasn’t provided us any
happiness or benefit. So then what we’ll start
to see then is some states have better test scores
and whatever, like higher literacy rates. And
some states don’t. And so people will start to
move to the states that do. Then, like, if you
still have a choice for what kind of education
your kids get. We talked about that before, too.
And you can’t move. You’re not going to move.
You’re not going to move. So your kids are just
going to have less, a substandard education based
on the funding that your state thinks. Right.
For how long will they have that? Well, I’m not
saying, like, the one second after thing. What
I’m saying is. So you live in a democratic state.
And so their priorities, like people are voting
differently. So you have to move to a Republican
state if you want those priorities. But you’re
not going to move. You’re not going to move.
We talked about that in specific to abortions.
If you need an abortion, you’re going to move
to a state that allows abortions. But you’re
not going to move for that purpose. So you’re
not going to move for education either. Education.
I think as soon as it’s released to the states,
the states will do what’s right for their people.
And ostensibly, if the socialist way of education
has worked, the public school system and paying
a single -payer system, the federal single -payer
system of public education, if that had worked,
we wouldn’t be number 40. So clearly that may
not be the way to go, ostensibly anyway. Something
is not working. Every individual community, every
city, you know, you’ve got charter schools that
come up, you’ve got the homeschools, you’ve got
co -ops, you’ve got all kinds of things that
are operating right now. Those things are going
to get a bigger emphasis. You’ve got people like
private learning academies, Veritas, and a number
of different places that are… And then you’ve
got Peterson Academy, Peterson’s college, you
know. You have Hillsdale College, which has online
courses. Those things are going to expand. They’ll
expand enough that anyone who wants an education,
even right now, you can get a perfect education
if you want it. And we’ve focused on that for
a number of years with homeschooling. You’ve
identified some good places, and you’re giving
your kids perfect growth opportunities the way
you see it. From my perspective. Other people
may not agree, but it’s yours. Right. Yeah, it’s
yours. And it was mine when I was raising kids
and raised you to be who you are. And I’m kind
of okay with that. You can be who you are. Unfortunately,
all of your other kids are not the way I am.
So what does that mean? You got it right with
the first one. And your mother has a completely
different view than I do. Yeah, right. No, they’re
all good. We’re surprised to hear that some of
them are still alive. Not exactly, but kind of.
You talk to all of them, too. There’s none that
are off the wall. Nobody is. Everyone is doing
just fine. We haven’t lost anyone. Your mother
has lost one of her siblings, as far as we don’t
really know where he is. Yeah. That’s it. Yeah.
Well, you guys know where he lives. You could
still just go and visit him, I think. No, I don’t
know that we could even find him. We kind of
know the communities. Maybe he’s renting the
house. It’s still listed under his ownership.
Okay. You’ve got a better connection to him than
I do. Yeah, the county website. The other one
that either lives in Columbia or Florida or we
don’t know where. Somewhere. He may be somewhere.
But he talks on these social medias all the time.
So we’re connected to him fairly well. So I don’t,
none of the essential programs are going to.
be dropped, just like the USAID issue. The people,
the fraudsters, or the people who are receiving
these monies for a purpose that no longer is
in our primary principles, they have to close.
Those businesses, there’s probably going to be
100 ,000 people in the DEI arena that no longer
have jobs or have to be repositioned somehow,
or a million or 100 million people. I don’t know.
There’s a number. A lot of people are going to
have their lives turned upside down. as a result
of what our current government is doing. Individual
lives. Right. And from what they’ve done, they’re
not any faster or any slower, really, than any
other government. I mean, they had these people
saying, you’re firing all these people. But both
Bill Clinton and Obama fired. They went through
a resetting of government in those times. And
it works. It’ll work. These people who are retiring
from their positions at the federal government
or deciding to take the early out or if their
positions at AID, nothing that AID was doing,
USAID, was stopped. Everything that’s official
moved right into the State Department. The State
Department took right over and they’re still
operating. Anyone who’s willing to operate is
still there operating, but they’re operating
with 200 people, 400 people instead of 10 ,000
people. So there’s… You know, 9 ,600 people
that are no longer doing something in that department.
And maybe the same thing will happen with the
Department of Education, the 20 ,000 employees
in the Department of Education. I don’t know
what the number is, but say 19 ,000 of them are
going to be without work. And they will have
to filter down to the states and assist wherever
they can if they, you know, they find another
career that’s as good as the federal career was.
Yeah. Well, this headline. from NBC News suggests
that the Department of Education is going to
be abolished. So everyone in there, all 20 ,000
people are going to lose their jobs because there
will be no department anymore. And you can’t
dismantle that. And that’s what was talked about.
The Secretary of Education, I forgot who it is,
whatever her name is, was described as more of
a manager than a leader or leadership. Difference
between management and leadership. She’s a A
systems person. Okay. The supposition is that
she was put in that position to manage the dismantling
of the Education Association. It’s not like it’s
going to happen. They’ll get a letter and tomorrow
you don’t work. And we’re just going to shutter
all the buildings and, you know, they’re going
to dismantle it. It’ll take, that’s what will
take time. That’s what you think. They can change.
Right. They changed the sign on the front of
the USAID building. They took the sign off. The
building’s still there. They didn’t demolish
the building. They didn’t kill everything in
there. everything there has to continue operating
and they put holds on projects say we’re going
to hold this money if they find the money is
necessary to move because something’s on the
train in the middle of africa and has to finish
its process they have to finish that process
it’s not like we’re going to let it all rot right
there there’s there’s perishable items in some
of the stuff usaid he was doing but most of it
was money going to just organizations political
organizations you know and what did i hear the
the charities for That we’re helping the illegal
immigrants in the country are having to close
down because they no longer have funding and
they no longer have people that they’re serving.
The people they’re serving have disappeared because
they’re afraid they’re going to be deported.
So they’ve moved somewhere else. They’re not
coming for dinner every day. Interesting. Like
they used to. So the society, it’s changing.
Things will change. But it’s going to take a
while. It is going to take a while. They won’t
just bulldoze the buildings. Yeah. And the big
10 ,000, you know, the… what the five buildings
in the, and I don’t know how many buildings there
are anyway, whatever they are, National Education
Association buildings in DC. will be repurposed
to something else. And who knows? It’s going
to take time to do all of that. You can make
the agenda, you can freeze spending for a time
until you determine how important it is, but
it’s going to, there will be a managed process
of closure on everything that needs to close.
A managed process of closure. So there’s nothing
to fear. All of these planes that are being reported
on, they’re crashing. It’s not because the day
before Trump signed an executive order. And took
all the air traffic control out of the way. It’s
not because of that. It’s just a coincidence.
No, and it’s not necessarily even a coincidence.
It’s just they’re reported now. Those things
happened three months ago. No one cared. I looked
up a… you know, the number of plane crashes
that happen every year. Yeah. And, like, even
for the month of January, it’s on par. That’s
how many crashes just happen. It’s just, yeah,
they’re talking about them now. Right. Well,
it doesn’t help that one of them was very prominent,
like, right there in the Potomac River. Yeah.
I mean, that didn’t help. But, yeah, we don’t
have more plane crashes because of that. We just
don’t. It’s the same, and we’re as safe as we
always were. You know, it wasn’t a specific thing
that happened there. It was a specific thing
that caused that crash. But whether it was the
helicopter’s problem or the jet’s problem, most
people, I mean, all the words that I’m hearing,
it’s likely the helicopter was in the wrong place
or doing something incorrectly. But whether blame
should be placed or could be placed. And that’s
why the FAA, you know, and the National Transportation
Safety Board, all these people, they need to
stay in effect. and operate, be able to answer
all those questions. Well, what else? So did
we cover the baby out with the bathwater? Sometimes
the baby has to go, too. Sometimes the baby is
rotten. Depends on what the baby is. The baby
is the problem because she’s crying too much.
No, you don’t throw the baby out because she’s
crying too much. You throw out because you can’t
determine the difference between her and the
bathwater. The baby is the bathwater. The baby
dissolved. Into the bathwater. This is like one
of those Brothers Grimm fairy tales. Don’t throw
the baby out with the bathwater. The baby was
never a baby to begin with. It was a tar baby.
It was a tar baby. It was just your perspective
that said that was actually the child I love.
Yeah. No, it’s not. That was just a tar baby.
My ice cubes. My ice cubes were my baby and someone
stole them and replaced them with all this water.
Well, what more is to be said? See if there was
a closure to that. I mean, we talked about it,
and it happens everywhere. And if you prove,
if you decide that you are that, then you’re
going to tend to decline. I think that’s true,
too. It’s kind of a nationality. NEA proved that
out. Things have declined, even though they’ve
been putting so much pressure on making them
increase. You can’t increase if you’re hedonistic
about your desire. self -promulgation of the
organization. So we’ll see what happens if you
get rid of that organization, if each individual
state and school district is going to be able
to operate better. And we would hope so. More
localized control as opposed to oversight. Well,
I am in favor of control being more local. That
makes sense. I think as long as the people that
need stuff don’t. don’t lose the ability to get
the stuff they need. That’s the fear, I think,
is most people are really afraid that suddenly
these are going to be gone and they’re not coming
back. That’s what everyone thought. Anyone who
needs something will be able to get it. That’s
the definition of a productive society, is you’re
going to be able to get whatever product you
need when you want it, when you desire it, when
you need it. We’re not going to turn into a third
world country, at least not on purpose. Hedonism
does create that on purpose, though, and that’s
what we’re seeing the effect of with a poor political
policy in regard to migration that did cause
crime to rise. It caused a degeneration of parts
of society that we don’t want. We don’t like
that in our communities. We don’t want those
type of situations to exist next to our children.
So it’s okay if it’s in Colorado, as long as
it’s not here where we are. And if I wanted it,
then I would move to Colorado. Right. You can
move to where those situations exist. But then
all the societies, that’s what I’m hearing, places
they used to congregate, they’re no longer there.
I don’t know how they’re surviving, what they’re
doing, if they’re not using the aid that was
provided. And if all of the hotels shut down
that are supporting the illegal aliens, they’re
going to live on the streets. That’s why it’s
going to take time. You can’t. It’s not going
to change overnight. And even, yeah, even the
hotel that was operating on that premise, it
was receiving its full annual salary in one lump
check every year. And now that hotel owner and
system has to change its operations and see if
it can find another customer. Not one that’s
likely as good as the U .S. government that’s
going to give them one check every quarter. Right.
Government contracts, they’re something you can
rely on, right? Right. Unless you’re on the fraudulent
side of it. And then hopefully… those can all
be turned off and prosecuted, perhaps even prosecuted,
and say that you weren’t running and operating
a good business. So I think that’s enough. I
didn’t pull it completely as to why pride came
into that, but we’ll be discussing pride at some
future date. Hedonism isn’t necessarily pride,
but if you’re proud of it, it just means you’re
going to decline. So I think that’s really where
we ended on this. I agree that if you focus only
on your own needs and your own pleasures and
desires, you’re not going to be a virtuous growth
position. You’re going to fall into a decline
position. Self -centered is not the way you want
to go. Pay attention to the societies around
you, the tiers around you. If tier zero just
pays attention to tier zero only, tier one is
going to ostracize it or kick it out, or tier
twos are going to start kicking it out. You’re
not going to operate. Societies are social. You’ve
got to be social with them. To be in a society,
you have to be social. You have to be social.
Not a socialist. You have to pay attention to
them. Not a social risk. Socialist. Oh, socialist.
Social isn’t the most important thing. Hedonistic
in your socialism. Well, now that’s something.
Yeah. If you spend, well, and that’s the temperance
idea and the moderation, the gluttony. You’ve
got to not be gluttonous in anything you’re doing.
And a hedonism is kind of a gluttonous idea.
It’s a gluttonous concept. I’m the only one.
Narcissistic is a gluttonous idea. So the more
open we are, the better off we are. [outro] I think that’s
it. So let’s close it out by saying thank you
for joining us and for listening in. We’re glad
that we have an audience, all two of you, which
probably includes just both of us. But if you
are listening, thank you. Your comments are certainly
welcome on the show notes. You’ll see the Do
You Have a Minute podcast, conversations, something
.com. There’s a website. There’s a phone number
you can call. There’s anything that you want
to look at. The website is on each thing as well,
and we’ll continue conversations in that. That’s
going to be something that’s really instrumental
in continuing these conversations going forward
and connecting them together. We try our best
to connect it with our brains, but our brains
are just our brains. So we welcome your support
and help in that. Thank you, and have a good
day. Bye.

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