Episode 36 – Revelation Schmevelation

In which we get into the weeds with the topics of revelation and prophecy.
Recorded April 03, 2025.

Please continue the conversation with us! 
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Show notes and links:
A Framework for Personal Revelation | Dale G. Renlund | October 2022 General Conference
Henry B Eyring – Unanimity in LDS Church Councils
Art Bell   Lori Toy   New Age Prophecies
Lori Toye
Lori Toye – Wikipedia
John Pontius. Info
Moroni’s “First” Promise. Perhaps the most famous scripture in… | by Gospel Thoughts | Medium
Hook – I’ve Just Had An Apostrophe
Testimony | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
The Global Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center
A Framework for Personal Revelation | The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
RIP Marlon Brando – Imgflip
SOCRATES ON LIFE AND DEATH (PLATO, APOLOGY 40Cg-q1C7)*

Transcript:

Jump to end
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[Clip] Lori Toye is one of many, many, many people prophesying
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something will happen, either if we don’t change,
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or if we do change, or it’s going to happen no
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matter what. Like, I know of one prominent guy.
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Well, I don’t know if he’s as prominent as some
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people think, but in my world, everyone’s talking
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about this guy. The things he says is going to
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happen is going to happen no matter what. Because
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it’s part of Jesus Christ’s second coming. He’s
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going to come whether we are all the nicest people
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on the earth or not. [Intro] Well, this is our podcast.
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Do you have a minute? And I… I’m going to bring
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up a topic with my dad that I am sure he’s super
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excited to talk about once he knows what it is.
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I’m scared, trembling. We talked about this before
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several times, and I think I just want to talk
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about it again today. I mean, maybe not on the
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podcast, but, you know, in our life. So do you
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have a minute to talk about revelation? Revelation.
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Inspiration. Revelation specifically. Prophecies.
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Visions. Visions. Prophecy. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely.
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Let’s talk about that. Are you excited to talk
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about this? Is it the seventh article of faith
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of the Church of Jesus Christ statement? I used
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to have those all memorized. Well, I do. I used
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to. But if you start it, we believe. That’s how
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it starts, right? Except for the one that’s a
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we claim. We claim the privilege. In the gift
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of tongues, prophecy, revelation. Interpretation
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of tongues, no. Gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation,
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visions, healing, interpretations of tongues,
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and so forth. So revelation is just part of a
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larger ethereal communication system. Revelation
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is one of the things. So gifts of tongues and
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the ability to speak and comprehend and understand.
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Prophecy is to be revealed, something that can
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happen in the future, perhaps. Prophecy. Yeah,
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that would be a future thing. Future thing. You
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prophesy the future. You can prophesy the past
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easily. Well, no, not easily. Right. Because
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of a radicality, you can’t even prophesy the
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past. Unless you’re a prophet, and then maybe
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you could say this is exactly what happened.
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Yeah, this is what happened. Omniscience into
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the past. Revelation, visions, healing, interpretation
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of tongues, and so forth. So there’s got to be
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other things, but Revelation. I think it encompasses
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all of that, though. Revelation is visions. It
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is inspiration, intuition, that thing that mothers
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only can do, intuition. Fathers can’t have intuition?
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I don’t think so. I’ve never heard it. What if
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the mother has passed away and the father has
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to take on that kind of role for some time? Not
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even then? No. Men can’t breastfeed. Maybe they
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can. I don’t know. Inspiration, not lactate.
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That’s not what we’re talking about. That’s probably
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the same thing, though. There’s that intuition
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that women have. Intuition, that’s it. That men
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do not have intuition. I don’t know. And that
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has to do with revelation. So can men be revealed
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those things that women are revealed on just
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a spur -of -the -moment basis about their kids
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or their husband? Well, I would argue yes. If
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women are getting it, I bet men can have it too.
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Okay. All right. That’s all I have to say on
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this subject. Yeah. All right. Well, then we’ll
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talk to you later. Just kidding. In recent years,
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there have been some things spoken by the leaders
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of the LDS church that say you cannot have a
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revelation that contradicts the revelation of
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a leader of the church. Right? Does that make
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sense? Do you agree that that has been iterated? By Gary
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Stevenson, I believe, [Actually Dale G Renlund,] gave a talk in regard to
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that about being on your same runway, on the
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runway. I’m recalling a recent general conference
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talk from him, and I think it was Stevenson,
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that indicated… Who is Gary Stevenson in relation
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to the church? He’s an apostle, one of the 15
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guys at the top. Oh, I didn’t know that some
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guy named Stevenson was in. Gary E. Stevenson,
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yeah. Yeah, see. Well, that’s what you get for
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being aloof. Stay aloof. Out of the loop. It’s
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fun being aloof. Aloft in the air by yourself.
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You’re not by yourself. You’ve got plenty of
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things, and that’s why this comes up. But he
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talks about the prophet’s runway is a specific
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runway. He said, I’m going to bother Elder Uchtdorf
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because I’m going to talk about airplanes for
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him. Because the airline pilot always talks about
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airplanes. He says, I’m going to talk about it.
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The prophet’s runway is a specific thing. The
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church has the runway of the prophet. He says
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you can’t, that’s not your runway. You can’t
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make decisions. Revelation, and it’s common knowledge
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in the church, a common doctrine, that you can
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receive revelation for your stewardship, but
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not beyond your stewardship. And it is the right,
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it’s been talked about quite often as well, it’s
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the right of someone under that stewardship.
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So if someone in a prophet standpoint or a bishop
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or, an elders quorum whoever a father in a family
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makes a revelation says i was revealed this is
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what we should do and we should follow this everyone
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under that stewardship has the right to receive
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the confirmation or revelation for themselves
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under the by the holy spirit by the holy ghost
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that that is a an appropriate revelation an appropriate
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direction now you you say receive the confirmation
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of it does that mean that you can’t receive was
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opposite of confirmation. You can’t not receive
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confirmation. You can’t receive some sort of
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thing that says, actually, this guy is wrong,
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right? I mean, is that what that says? It seems
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like that’s what it’s implying. There’s another
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concept that plays in there. Yeah, there’s not
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competition. And scripturally, we’re talking
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Revelation scripturally, God is not the God of
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contention. So, yeah, you can say he’s wrong,
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but you don’t say he’s wrong by fighting. You
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don’t come into contention with it. You come
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into, what’s the other word besides contending?
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Persuasion. You enact persuasion. You enact,
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let’s learn more about this. Let’s work on this.
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The councils, Henry B. Eyring, one of the apostles,
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and he gave a talk probably 10 or 20 years ago,
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maybe 20 years ago now. He says the way that
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the councils of the church work, the First Presidency
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and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, is you…
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You work through something until you get unity
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on it. They work towards unity and unification.
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They’re unified in the decision they take out
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before they go out with it. If there is some
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discussion to be had, it’s discussion. It’s an
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argument. It’s a persuasion. It’s, you know,
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I’m feeling this way about it. Until you can
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come to a unity of the faith of the concept,
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then you don’t move forward. Even though the
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prophet is there saying, I think we should do
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this. Like some of the major changes in the church
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in the past. 1978, the blacks and the priesthood.
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Priesthood being offered to all males in the
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church. So that thing was discussed for a number
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of times. I don’t know how long, but President
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Kimball was the prophet. Spencer W. Kimball was
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a prophet at the time. And he said, as we’ve
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discussed it, that he didn’t go out to make the
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announcement from the church until all… the
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apostles were unified with that. And like any
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other changes, the changes to, you mentioned
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changes in the garment, in some special clothing
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in the LDS church, those changes that I’m not
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aware of, but in order to make a change to the
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clothing to that requirement would take a unification,
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a unity of those 15 men at the top. Right. It
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wouldn’t, it would be strange if. Somebody didn’t
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agree. Well, it would be not allowed for someone
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not to agree. So it wouldn’t move forward until
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there was unanimity. It’s not like the Supreme
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Court or the, yeah, the Supreme Court of the
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United States where you can have a 5 -3 decision
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or 5 -4 or 6 -3. The decisions don’t come out
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that way. There’s not a dissenting view in anything
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that the church does from those councils. Now,
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that’s my understanding. Yeah. Well, and we can’t
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know, right? Right. We’re not in those councils.
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And they’re not public. They’re never public.
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They’re always private. So they can talk about
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what they’ve done in there. And they talk about
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the process and the procedure. And you have to
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take their word that that’s accurate, that that’s
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correct. You’ve got to trust. You place your
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trust in them. Right. Or trust or faith. Trust
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or faith. Are those synonymous terms? Well, in
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revelation, let’s use the word we’re talking
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about today. Can you trust your revelation or
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do you have faith in your revelation? I don’t
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understand the question. Well, the difference
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between trust and faith. Trust, you could trust
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something because you’ve tested it, you’ve proven
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it, you know that it’s there. The chair, I trust
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this chair because I’m sitting in it and I know
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I’ve proven it. I don’t even have trust anymore
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in the chair because I have perfect knowledge
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that I’m sitting on this chair. You can trust
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the chair that it’s going to hold you up. But
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I’ve got more trust in the chair, I guess. I’m
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sitting on it and leaning back because I trust
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it. But I don’t have faith in it. Before you
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sit on a chair, you have faith in it. So that’s
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the description I heard once that I think makes
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a lot of sense. I’ve got faith that that chair
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can be sat on. But until I issue my trust in
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it and actually move to it, then my faith is
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no longer there because I’m operating in full
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trust. And then you remain sitting on it, which
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means you trust. I continue to trust it. It will
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hold you. But I, and do I still have faith in
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it? No, because I’m using it. You’re using the
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thing. You have faith in something that you.
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It’s proven. That you haven’t, that you don’t
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have trust in yet. I don’t have trust in it,
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but I have faith. So Revelation, if you hear
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something, what have we heard recently? One thing
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that’s been going on for many years is the end
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of times. Okay. And there’s a number of groups
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of people doing those, right? Are you talking
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specifically about what have you heard? What
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do you think has been talked about? There are
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so many. Right. So pick one. Pick one. That’s
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all. So many. There’s a lady in Arizona that
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started talking about it in the 70s. She started
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having visions from Buddhist monks about the
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end of the… the end of world as we know it,
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I guess. There’s going to be floods and earthquakes
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and stuff like that. And so she… Do you know
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this lady? You don’t know her. You don’t know
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her name. Just someone in the 70s in Arizona.
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I do know her name. No, she was interviewed by
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Art Bell on his Coast to Coast AM. Okay. So you
00:11:54.139 –> 00:11:57.059
remember that conversation from 20 years ago
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when you listened to it? Yeah, no, I just, I
00:11:59.700 –> 00:12:02.220
listened to it recently because… I was like,
00:12:02.279 –> 00:12:05.899
oh, yeah, I remember listening to Art Bell. Somebody’s
00:12:05.899 –> 00:12:10.100
got a bunch of his audios up on the podcast thing,
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and so I pulled one up and started listening,
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and it was interesting. I really like Art Bell.
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He was a good guy. He’s not around anymore, but
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he was a good guy. From Pahrump, Nevada. Is that
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where he said he’s from? I think that’s where
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he broadcasts from. Interesting. Maybe it was
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in Pahrump. Something like that. So this lady
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still operates a website, she and her husband,
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and they live in Payson Arizona. And goodness,
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what is her name? Let me see. Okay. Her name
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is Lori Toye. Okay. I’d never heard of that before.
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Yeah. So many prophetic revelations from people
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that you’ve never heard from even. We have a
00:12:53.669 –> 00:12:58.409
very narrow, a very small bubble that we know.
00:12:59.769 –> 00:13:03.350
Yeah. That’s your area of interest in your circle
00:13:03.350 –> 00:13:05.950
of concern, your circle of influence, rather.
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Your circle of influence is very small. Very
00:13:08.570 –> 00:13:10.190
small. What you actually know. I don’t know if
00:13:10.190 –> 00:13:13.230
that relates to what we’re… Circle of concern
00:13:13.230 –> 00:13:16.370
is small, even. Even the circle of concern is
00:13:16.370 –> 00:13:18.850
small. There is so much more outside of that.
00:13:19.009 –> 00:13:21.029
Besides what you’re aware of. So maybe it is,
00:13:21.169 –> 00:13:25.009
yeah, Lori Toye, T -O -Y -E, could be part of.
00:13:25.129 –> 00:13:28.220
Is that right? On his podcast thing, it says
00:13:28.220 –> 00:13:31.720
Laurie Toy, just T -O -Y, but it’s possible that
00:13:31.720 –> 00:13:34.779
it’s T -O -Y -E. Okay, maybe not. Maybe, maybe
00:13:34.779 –> 00:13:37.059
not. This may be a different one. But she’s an
00:13:37.059 –> 00:13:41.299
artist, and so she had these visions. These Buddhist
00:13:41.299 –> 00:13:46.080
monks came to her in visions and showed her the
00:13:46.080 –> 00:13:50.379
world after a big calamity happened or whatever.
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.759
And so she made maps. She’s not necessarily promoting
00:13:53.759 –> 00:13:57.769
herself. or is she promoting herself? That was
00:13:57.769 –> 00:13:59.549
one question that one of the calling listeners
00:13:59.549 –> 00:14:01.389
said, is like, how much money are you making
00:14:01.389 –> 00:14:04.090
off of this? And she said, well, we make enough
00:14:04.090 –> 00:14:07.330
to pay our secretary to run the website, but
00:14:07.330 –> 00:14:10.330
that’s it, you know? Yeah, she has the America
00:14:10.330 –> 00:14:13.110
map. This is Toy with an E on the end. Her first
00:14:13.110 –> 00:14:17.669
vision in 1983, Ascendant Masters. That’s Wikipedia.
00:14:17.889 –> 00:14:20.509
We don’t know if we have faith or trust in Wikipedia
00:14:20.509 –> 00:14:25.820
or not. Right. Art Bell interviewed her in 1994.
00:14:26.139 –> 00:14:30.820
So she had her vision in the 80s then, and she
00:14:30.820 –> 00:14:34.899
started promoting that, I guess. But her big
00:14:34.899 –> 00:14:38.460
point is that we can avoid what’s going to happen
00:14:38.460 –> 00:14:43.120
if the world becomes kinder, I suppose. You can
00:14:43.120 –> 00:14:46.340
avoid it? Yeah, we’re running into destruction
00:14:46.340 –> 00:14:49.809
by just the way of… of how people are these
00:14:49.809 –> 00:14:54.990
days. And so if we work hard, then we can have
00:14:54.990 –> 00:14:58.070
it not happen. The thing, the big thing, you
00:14:58.070 –> 00:15:03.950
know. Laurie Toy is one of many, many, many people
00:15:03.950 –> 00:15:08.649
prophesying something will happen, either if
00:15:08.649 –> 00:15:11.549
we don’t change, or if we do change, or it’s
00:15:11.549 –> 00:15:14.429
going to happen no matter what. Like, I know
00:15:14.429 –> 00:15:19.490
of one prominent Well, I don’t know if he’s as
00:15:19.490 –> 00:15:22.769
prominent as some people think, but in my world,
00:15:22.850 –> 00:15:26.169
everyone’s talking about this guy and the things
00:15:26.169 –> 00:15:27.889
he says is going to happen is going to happen
00:15:27.889 –> 00:15:31.149
no matter what, because it’s part of Jesus Christ’s
00:15:31.149 –> 00:15:34.529
second coming. He’s going to come whether we
00:15:34.529 –> 00:15:37.690
are all the nicest people on the earth or not.
00:15:37.889 –> 00:15:39.669
So the signs of the times, the second coming
00:15:39.669 –> 00:15:42.350
is going to generate the battle of Armageddon,
00:15:42.370 –> 00:15:44.730
all kinds of things that are scripturally identified.
00:15:45.029 –> 00:15:49.389
Yeah. So there’s people that say, if we all straighten
00:15:49.389 –> 00:15:52.769
up, then we can avoid destruction. And then there’s
00:15:52.769 –> 00:15:55.129
other people that say, well, it doesn’t matter
00:15:55.129 –> 00:15:59.429
if we straighten up or not, then something’s
00:15:59.429 –> 00:16:01.309
happening. Something’s going to happen no matter
00:16:01.309 –> 00:16:03.909
what. And how do you tell the difference between
00:16:03.909 –> 00:16:08.330
those two? I imagine which one makes you feel
00:16:08.330 –> 00:16:10.120
better. That’s one way. That’s how you decide.
00:16:10.279 –> 00:16:13.139
One way to do it is to put yourself at the center
00:16:13.139 –> 00:16:15.940
of the universe and say, it’s what makes me feel
00:16:15.940 –> 00:16:18.600
better that’s important. Right. The hedonistic
00:16:18.600 –> 00:16:21.500
view of it, that my pleasure is going to be important.
00:16:21.580 –> 00:16:23.379
And this one is more pleasurable for me. This
00:16:23.379 –> 00:16:26.559
one is the one I choose. Now, someone will not
00:16:26.559 –> 00:16:29.940
be a member of a church if they don’t feel like
00:16:29.940 –> 00:16:33.480
it’s a good church. Maybe it’s just a good society.
00:16:33.539 –> 00:16:35.759
It’s all around feelings. It’s just a good society.
00:16:36.120 –> 00:16:38.500
It’s all. Well, it’s around. It’s all around
00:16:38.500 –> 00:16:40.419
feelings. That’s how you know that you’re in
00:16:40.419 –> 00:16:43.320
the right church. It feels right. If it feels
00:16:43.320 –> 00:16:45.240
right. If it doesn’t feel right, then that’s
00:16:45.240 –> 00:16:47.539
the sign that it’s a wrong thing to be doing.
00:16:47.840 –> 00:16:51.639
If a church, if the people of a church are prophesying
00:16:51.639 –> 00:16:54.139
something is going to happen and you don’t feel
00:16:54.139 –> 00:16:56.100
right about it, then you’re not going to believe
00:16:56.100 –> 00:16:57.600
that. You’re going to say, well, this church
00:16:57.600 –> 00:17:01.799
isn’t for me. Right. Okay. So you choose the
00:17:01.799 –> 00:17:05.880
prophecies that you like. That’s a different
00:17:05.880 –> 00:17:11.569
tangent. How you choose your church. We’re talking
00:17:11.569 –> 00:17:14.329
about signs of the times, let’s say. Signs of
00:17:14.329 –> 00:17:17.569
the times or prophecies to the end of time. Whether
00:17:17.569 –> 00:17:20.329
you can do anything to solve it or whether you’re
00:17:20.329 –> 00:17:24.170
just stuck with it. And so the philosophy, the
00:17:24.170 –> 00:17:26.690
story represents, let’s just talk about it as
00:17:26.690 –> 00:17:28.430
a story, whether it’s religion or a church or
00:17:28.430 –> 00:17:30.789
anything. The story represents that there’s nothing
00:17:30.789 –> 00:17:32.170
you can do about it. You’re just going to have
00:17:32.170 –> 00:17:36.009
to live through it. So just prepare to live through
00:17:36.009 –> 00:17:38.460
it. And the other one says… Yeah, that’s the
00:17:38.460 –> 00:17:40.720
message is be prepared. The other one says, if
00:17:40.720 –> 00:17:42.859
we share this enough and persuade enough people
00:17:42.859 –> 00:17:46.619
to be this good and do this much good in the
00:17:46.619 –> 00:17:50.339
world, like Adam Smith, who wrote Wealth of Nations
00:17:50.339 –> 00:17:54.859
in 1775, 1776, said, America is great because
00:17:54.859 –> 00:17:56.640
America is good. If America ceases to be good,
00:17:56.740 –> 00:17:59.599
America will cease to be great. So it’s the goodness
00:17:59.599 –> 00:18:02.299
that allowed the Constitution and the country
00:18:02.299 –> 00:18:05.039
to be developed because people were good with
00:18:05.039 –> 00:18:06.890
each other. There wasn’t dissension. They weren’t
00:18:06.890 –> 00:18:10.650
fighting each other, unlike today. So the goodness
00:18:10.650 –> 00:18:13.849
in Adam Smith kind of made a prophecy, a declaration
00:18:13.849 –> 00:18:17.250
that way. He was prophesying. He was just a writer.
00:18:17.509 –> 00:18:20.890
He wasn’t giving a religious code, but saying,
00:18:20.990 –> 00:18:25.549
be good and you can be great. So which story
00:18:25.549 –> 00:18:28.049
do you choose? Do you choose a story based on
00:18:28.049 –> 00:18:31.210
how it makes you feel? What’s another way to
00:18:31.210 –> 00:18:36.019
choose it? You place your trust. In someone else
00:18:36.019 –> 00:18:39.920
who decides what is the right path? Right. You
00:18:39.920 –> 00:18:43.299
said that this Lori person, Toy, had gotten information
00:18:43.299 –> 00:18:46.440
from Buddhist monks, Buddhist priests. Someone
00:18:46.440 –> 00:18:48.680
came to her. Did they come to her physically
00:18:48.680 –> 00:18:51.420
or in vision? Okay. So in vision, she saw these
00:18:51.420 –> 00:18:55.059
people from, and was it Buddhism? Was it Buddhists?
00:18:55.319 –> 00:18:59.480
Buddhism. That’s what she said. She said they
00:18:59.480 –> 00:19:00.559
were Buddhist monks. And where does Buddhists
00:19:00.559 –> 00:19:03.019
come from? What region of the world are they?
00:19:03.160 –> 00:19:10.220
Is that China? That’s Nepal and India. I think
00:19:10.220 –> 00:19:13.259
mainly Nepal. Confucianism was in China. Confucianism
00:19:13.259 –> 00:19:16.640
is in China. Buddhism, Buddha was India or somewhere
00:19:16.640 –> 00:19:19.980
in that region. I don’t know exactly. I’ve got
00:19:19.980 –> 00:19:23.480
it on my wall chart here. The history. You have
00:19:23.480 –> 00:19:25.900
a wall chart of where the religions are? Let’s
00:19:25.900 –> 00:19:28.220
see where Buddha actually was. Japan, China,
00:19:28.480 –> 00:19:32.460
Buddha. He is in Indo -German, Indo -Germany.
00:19:32.500 –> 00:19:38.140
And that was… 640 BC. Confucius was China.
00:19:38.579 –> 00:19:42.640
Shinto. But Buddha was. Buddha the wise. 640,
00:19:42.839 –> 00:19:47.119
well, between 700 and 600 BC. 650, something
00:19:47.119 –> 00:19:49.839
like that. But Germany, so he was Europe. That
00:19:49.839 –> 00:19:52.799
was a European religion. Yeah, and I don’t know
00:19:52.799 –> 00:19:55.019
exactly where that is, but the difference, they
00:19:55.019 –> 00:19:58.700
called it that. And it’s lined up, yeah, Indo
00:19:58.700 –> 00:20:01.109
-Germany. But I’m thinking that, I mean, it’s
00:20:01.109 –> 00:20:02.769
not Persia, it’s not Greece, it’s not Japan,
00:20:02.869 –> 00:20:05.349
it’s not China, it’s not Rome. So it’s got to
00:20:05.349 –> 00:20:08.390
be the central part of, you know, geographically
00:20:08.390 –> 00:20:11.710
has to be Russia maybe. So Buddha is just an
00:20:11.710 –> 00:20:14.910
old, if Buddhist monks came or Buddhists came
00:20:14.910 –> 00:20:19.049
and gave her a revelation, it gave. She feels
00:20:19.049 –> 00:20:23.690
it with her whole body and her family. Her husband
00:20:23.690 –> 00:20:26.130
believes it wholeheartedly too. And the story
00:20:26.130 –> 00:20:29.650
she’s giving is that if we just. be better as
00:20:29.650 –> 00:20:31.890
a people, we can solve this and we don’t have
00:20:31.890 –> 00:20:34.410
to go through the damage that’s going to happen.
00:20:34.730 –> 00:20:39.670
Yeah. It kind of stems from fear of where we’re
00:20:39.670 –> 00:20:43.470
headed, right? Well, someone would agree with
00:20:43.470 –> 00:20:45.630
that story if they had fear of where we’re headed.
00:20:45.809 –> 00:20:49.410
So she’s talking to people’s fears, saying, you
00:20:49.410 –> 00:20:51.609
know, we’re going to get more followers in this
00:20:51.609 –> 00:20:54.910
philosophy, in this story, if we talk to the
00:20:54.910 –> 00:20:57.339
people who are more fearful. And we can give
00:20:57.339 –> 00:20:59.880
them more comfort by saying, let’s just spread
00:20:59.880 –> 00:21:03.460
the word. If you operate this multi -level system,
00:21:03.839 –> 00:21:06.920
talk to all your friends and family and everyone
00:21:06.920 –> 00:21:10.519
on the street with your proselytizing message that
00:21:10.519 –> 00:21:13.380
we just have to be better. We have to stop burning
00:21:13.380 –> 00:21:18.799
Teslas. We have to do things right so that we
00:21:18.799 –> 00:21:21.559
don’t have to have, and I looked at some of the
00:21:21.559 –> 00:21:23.279
maps she had there, so we don’t have to have
00:21:23.279 –> 00:21:25.700
an ocean right in the middle of. the United States
00:21:25.700 –> 00:21:29.960
so that Denver is not oceanfront property. That
00:21:29.960 –> 00:21:32.180
was one of the things on Wikipedia that he said.
00:21:32.720 –> 00:21:36.940
Yes, yes. Most of Nevada is just water, right?
00:21:37.400 –> 00:21:40.319
Salt Lake City is an island. I don’t know how
00:21:40.319 –> 00:21:42.299
Salt Lake City could be an island, though, considering
00:21:42.299 –> 00:21:45.140
it’s right up against the mountain. Like, did
00:21:45.140 –> 00:21:47.279
they move the city to the top of the mountain
00:21:47.279 –> 00:21:50.500
and now it’s an island? And the elevation of
00:21:50.500 –> 00:21:53.819
the Great Salt Lake is 3 ,000, 4 ,000 feet above
00:21:53.819 –> 00:21:57.250
sea level. So how do you make that an island?
00:21:57.630 –> 00:21:59.630
You know, that’s maybe Denver and Salt Lake,
00:21:59.710 –> 00:22:02.109
they’re the side, they’re the coasts of that
00:22:02.109 –> 00:22:04.910
mountain. Yeah, the island goes around behind
00:22:04.910 –> 00:22:07.369
Heber Valley, you know, it’s the back part of
00:22:07.369 –> 00:22:09.009
it. So it’s got to be the whole Wasatch Front
00:22:09.009 –> 00:22:11.309
that she’s talking about, unless the mountain
00:22:11.309 –> 00:22:14.390
falls down, which the mountain could fall too.
00:22:14.730 –> 00:22:20.569
I mean, all the Uintas could disappear. So that’s
00:22:20.569 –> 00:22:23.740
one person, right? The other guy that I’m thinking
00:22:23.740 –> 00:22:28.960
of is in some circles in Mormonism, he’s known
00:22:28.960 –> 00:22:32.259
as Spencer because that’s who he is in his book,
00:22:32.380 –> 00:22:34.400
Visions of Glory. John Pontius interviewed him
00:22:34.400 –> 00:22:36.519
and wrote the story of Spencer, which Spencer
00:22:36.519 –> 00:22:40.019
is still alive and his name is out there. You
00:22:40.019 –> 00:22:43.039
can find him. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know it off
00:22:43.039 –> 00:22:44.640
the top of my head and I don’t have it written
00:22:44.640 –> 00:22:46.160
down, so I can’t say. John Pontius, the writer,
00:22:46.240 –> 00:22:50.099
is dead. So he’s gone. Yes. So this Spencer guy
00:22:50.099 –> 00:22:54.420
claims. that he’s received several visions of
00:22:54.420 –> 00:22:59.099
how, even through the whole millennium, however
00:22:59.099 –> 00:23:02.319
long the millennium actually was, but he sees
00:23:02.319 –> 00:23:06.319
through to the actual coming of Christ in this
00:23:06.319 –> 00:23:08.920
one three -hour vision that he receives in one
00:23:08.920 –> 00:23:13.599
night. He lives from the start of the millennium
00:23:13.599 –> 00:23:17.200
all the way through to the second coming, and
00:23:17.200 –> 00:23:20.400
maybe even beyond, I think. I think I recall
00:23:20.400 –> 00:23:24.299
he saw what it was like after, how life was like
00:23:24.299 –> 00:23:27.259
after Christ has come again. But it’s not the
00:23:27.259 –> 00:23:29.940
millennium he’s talking about. The second coming
00:23:29.940 –> 00:23:33.000
starts the millennium of a thousand years. This
00:23:33.000 –> 00:23:35.220
is the tribulation. He’s talking about the tribulation,
00:23:35.339 –> 00:23:39.660
the Armageddon. No, he’s, yeah, well, Christ
00:23:39.660 –> 00:23:43.019
came and visited like at the start of his vision.
00:23:43.549 –> 00:23:46.329
There was all of the earthquakes and floods and
00:23:46.329 –> 00:23:49.369
volcanoes and everything that destroyed like
00:23:49.369 –> 00:23:51.789
a lot of stuff. That was at the beginning of
00:23:51.789 –> 00:23:54.490
the vision. And then he was invited to a special
00:23:54.490 –> 00:23:58.109
meeting at the church conference center. In which
00:23:58.109 –> 00:24:00.009
Christ and Joseph Smith was there. And Jesus
00:24:00.009 –> 00:24:02.329
was there. Yeah, they were all there in the conference
00:24:02.329 –> 00:24:05.369
center. And then they built an exact conference
00:24:05.369 –> 00:24:07.869
center in Rexburg. And that’s where all the whole
00:24:07.869 –> 00:24:12.049
church moved to in this visions of glory. So
00:24:12.049 –> 00:24:14.460
that’s the glory. That’s starting of the tribulation,
00:24:14.500 –> 00:24:17.599
though. So instead of the millennium. The tribulation
00:24:17.599 –> 00:24:19.220
is years and years then. It’s years that come
00:24:19.220 –> 00:24:21.240
up before the actual second coming, before the
00:24:21.240 –> 00:24:25.240
millennium starts. Right. And it’s not the second
00:24:25.240 –> 00:24:28.339
coming of Christ when everyone will see it. But
00:24:28.339 –> 00:24:30.599
that’s all still. So how do we take that story?
00:24:30.940 –> 00:24:33.160
You can take it on trust. You can trust that
00:24:33.160 –> 00:24:35.720
John Pontius had this interview, that Spencer
00:24:35.720 –> 00:24:39.160
actually saw that vision. Or you can have faith
00:24:39.160 –> 00:24:43.470
that it’s true. And I think more likely you have
00:24:43.470 –> 00:24:46.450
faith. You can’t really trust that vision. So
00:24:46.450 –> 00:24:47.950
you can’t trust in it, but you can have faith
00:24:47.950 –> 00:24:50.650
in it. And those people who have faith in it,
00:24:50.670 –> 00:24:52.630
let’s go back to the other lady. I mean, the
00:24:52.630 –> 00:24:54.569
other lady says, if we just change some things,
00:24:54.609 –> 00:24:56.750
we can affect the future. We can affect this
00:24:56.750 –> 00:25:00.390
vision. So there you do want to persuade as many
00:25:00.390 –> 00:25:02.970
people as possible to come into the faith, into
00:25:02.970 –> 00:25:06.250
the faith of believing it so that you can exercise
00:25:06.250 –> 00:25:09.660
and actually demonstrate your trust. that it’s
00:25:09.660 –> 00:25:11.799
going to happen the way that your belief is.
00:25:12.119 –> 00:25:14.579
With the John Pontius story, with the visions
00:25:14.579 –> 00:25:16.900
of glory, there’s nothing you can do about it.
00:25:17.119 –> 00:25:18.940
He’s just saying this is what’s going to happen.
00:25:19.140 –> 00:25:22.380
And so be prepared, get in the right area, get
00:25:22.380 –> 00:25:25.500
in the right location. But it doesn’t help if
00:25:25.500 –> 00:25:27.900
you convince the whole world to get in that location
00:25:27.900 –> 00:25:30.660
because the whole world will not fit in the conference
00:25:30.660 –> 00:25:35.119
center. Well, they built cities of Zion everywhere
00:25:35.119 –> 00:25:39.319
around. He didn’t mention outside of the U .S.,
00:25:39.319 –> 00:25:42.460
I don’t think, but everywhere inside the U .S.
00:25:42.480 –> 00:25:44.980
there’s cities of Zion that everyone was pulling
00:25:44.980 –> 00:25:48.420
to. However, they’re tent cities, and that vision
00:25:48.420 –> 00:25:52.440
doesn’t match my hedonistic feel that I’d like
00:25:52.440 –> 00:25:57.539
to be in. Therefore, I don’t trust. So you don’t
00:25:57.539 –> 00:25:59.500
believe in the tent city revelations. Correct.
00:25:59.500 –> 00:26:00.500
I don’t trust it, and I don’t have any faith
00:26:00.500 –> 00:26:02.599
in the tent city revelations. Because it doesn’t
00:26:02.599 –> 00:26:04.400
match mine. So that’s what you’re saying. You
00:26:04.400 –> 00:26:06.440
have to individually think what it is that you
00:26:06.440 –> 00:26:09.200
decide to believe in and you want to follow.
00:26:09.480 –> 00:26:12.519
Now, this Spencer guy did say that he had the
00:26:12.519 –> 00:26:15.299
full support of at least one general authority
00:26:15.299 –> 00:26:19.359
who told him that his visions were true and that
00:26:19.359 –> 00:26:22.839
everything, I mean, that’s hearsay. It’s third,
00:26:22.920 –> 00:26:25.980
fourth, I don’t know, John Pontius saying that
00:26:25.980 –> 00:26:28.400
Spencer said this and Spencer saying that. And
00:26:28.400 –> 00:26:30.480
look at John Pontius. He’s a prophet in his own
00:26:30.480 –> 00:26:34.200
right. too. He, he spoke his other books. He’s
00:26:34.200 –> 00:26:36.099
written a number of other things. He has other
00:26:36.099 –> 00:26:40.160
things out there, but he, he, in his own description
00:26:40.160 –> 00:26:43.099
changed the way missionaries operate in the field
00:26:43.099 –> 00:26:46.079
by the spirit. And he has stories to say, you
00:26:46.079 –> 00:26:47.880
know, that’s what started the spiritual thing.
00:26:47.940 –> 00:26:49.279
Cause he was out there at the time that they
00:26:49.279 –> 00:26:52.480
had the, oh, the rainbow discussions. And then
00:26:52.480 –> 00:26:53.980
you had to memorize the discussions clearly.
00:26:54.140 –> 00:26:56.980
And, and he was one of the first pioneers to
00:26:56.980 –> 00:26:59.299
saying, let’s just operate by the spirit. Let’s
00:26:59.299 –> 00:27:01.349
learn the doctrine to go out. Do what the Spirit
00:27:01.349 –> 00:27:04.130
says. John Pontius says he was one of the first
00:27:04.130 –> 00:27:06.670
ones to do that. It may be true and it may not.
00:27:06.769 –> 00:27:09.490
I don’t know. I don’t know how all that changed
00:27:09.490 –> 00:27:12.970
to preach my gospel now and you just study the
00:27:12.970 –> 00:27:14.609
gospel and then you go and talk about whatever
00:27:14.609 –> 00:27:17.289
the Spirit directs you to talk about. You don’t
00:27:17.289 –> 00:27:19.750
have a given order of discussions that you have
00:27:19.750 –> 00:27:23.710
to do. Right, which if you’re part of a church
00:27:23.710 –> 00:27:27.690
that leads with inspiration, then that would
00:27:27.690 –> 00:27:30.680
be obviously the better way to do it. And you
00:27:30.680 –> 00:27:33.180
have the faith and the trust that the Holy Ghost,
00:27:33.319 –> 00:27:36.299
that the Spirit, that God will inspire and reveal
00:27:36.299 –> 00:27:38.940
the right things to be done at the right times.
00:27:39.099 –> 00:27:42.160
Okay. Yeah. The right things at the right times.
00:27:42.720 –> 00:27:46.119
The problem is a lot of people are believing
00:27:46.119 –> 00:27:49.539
the revelations and the prophecies of these people
00:27:49.539 –> 00:27:53.099
who don’t have stewardship over them. Right?
00:27:53.599 –> 00:27:56.539
Right. I don’t know that you can say right. That’s
00:27:56.539 –> 00:28:00.180
not the right question. Correct? No. What can
00:28:00.180 –> 00:28:02.960
I use? Wrong? Where did the stewardship come
00:28:02.960 –> 00:28:07.920
from? How do we know that Laurie Toy does not
00:28:07.920 –> 00:28:11.640
have stewardship over this world? How do we know
00:28:11.640 –> 00:28:14.460
she’s not a prophet? We don’t. That’s a really
00:28:14.460 –> 00:28:17.920
good question. We do not. We don’t know that
00:28:17.920 –> 00:28:20.079
she’s wrong. That’s a faith thing. We don’t know
00:28:20.079 –> 00:28:21.819
that Spencer is wrong. We don’t know that John
00:28:21.819 –> 00:28:25.859
Pontius is right or wrong in his stuff. We don’t
00:28:25.859 –> 00:28:28.319
know that. You can’t even prove it. We don’t
00:28:28.319 –> 00:28:30.539
know that Confucius was the right leader to follow
00:28:30.539 –> 00:28:34.980
or that Buddha or Shinto or Jesus Christ or who
00:28:34.980 –> 00:28:38.619
else is on there? Muhammad. Right. And there
00:28:38.619 –> 00:28:40.720
are religions that are continuing. We’re continuing
00:28:40.720 –> 00:28:43.759
with all those traditions today. There are followers
00:28:43.759 –> 00:28:46.240
of every one of those traditions, five or six
00:28:46.240 –> 00:28:49.640
or 10 major traditions. And how do we know which
00:28:49.640 –> 00:28:52.740
one’s right? What does the LDS church say? Is
00:28:52.740 –> 00:28:55.640
Moroni’s promise? Wouldn’t that be that? Moroni
00:28:55.640 –> 00:28:58.470

This is how you can tell. 1, 9, 10, 4, and
00:28:58.470 –> 00:29:01.630

May I quote it? You may, if you can. If I
00:29:01.630 –> 00:29:03.789
can. And when you have received these things,
00:29:03.869 –> 00:29:05.849
if it is wisdom in God that you have received
00:29:05.849 –> 00:29:08.109
them, I would ask that you would ask God, the
00:29:08.109 –> 00:29:09.690
Eternal Father, in the name of Jesus Christ,
00:29:09.809 –> 00:29:11.609
if these things are not true. And if they are
00:29:11.609 –> 00:29:17.130
true, you will be, no, I can’t quote it, you’ll
00:29:17.130 –> 00:29:21.009
be manifested by the Holy Ghost if these things
00:29:21.009 –> 00:29:24.569
are true. So you’ll get an inspiration or revelation.
00:29:25.049 –> 00:29:27.029
And by the power of the Holy Ghost, you may know
00:29:27.029 –> 00:29:30.089
the truth of all things. That’s four verse five.
00:29:30.390 –> 00:29:32.950
And that’s, I like that verse better. By the
00:29:32.950 –> 00:29:34.890
power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth
00:29:34.890 –> 00:29:37.009
of all things. Because verse four, it’s talking
00:29:37.009 –> 00:29:39.690
about, you know, the truth of this, this work
00:29:39.690 –> 00:29:43.069
of the Book of Mormon, of the prophecy of the
00:29:43.069 –> 00:29:45.650
priesthood of God. You can get a testimony of
00:29:45.650 –> 00:29:47.750
that specifically. And by the power of the Holy
00:29:47.750 –> 00:29:49.349
Ghost, you may know the truth of all things.
00:29:49.670 –> 00:29:52.130
Just like any business discussion you have, you
00:29:52.130 –> 00:29:53.890
can know the truth of that by the power of the
00:29:53.890 –> 00:29:56.609
Holy Ghost. If you have faith in that power and
00:29:56.609 –> 00:30:00.369
trust it. I suppose you have to decide what truth
00:30:00.369 –> 00:30:04.490
means first before you decide that you can know
00:30:04.490 –> 00:30:07.450
the truth of something. I don’t know if first
00:30:07.450 –> 00:30:10.230
is the right way to say that. They’re the same
00:30:10.230 –> 00:30:13.289
thing. Truth is what you have your faith and
00:30:13.289 –> 00:30:16.990
confidence in. If you think, well, the thing
00:30:16.990 –> 00:30:20.390
that you just did is truth. It just happened.
00:30:20.609 –> 00:30:22.670
We talked about truth and we probably talked
00:30:22.670 –> 00:30:25.940
about that truth. is good in the past, but truth
00:30:25.940 –> 00:30:28.180
in the future is hard to identify, and whether
00:30:28.180 –> 00:30:31.000
it’s even identifiable at all. And even truth
00:30:31.000 –> 00:30:33.539
in the past, if you go past this moment, this
00:30:33.539 –> 00:30:36.980
now, you have a hard time remembering or identifying
00:30:36.980 –> 00:30:39.079
clearly what it was. That’s why we talked about
00:30:39.079 –> 00:30:43.180
the veridicality and truth. I think that’s a
00:30:43.180 –> 00:30:46.619
faith -generated realization as well, awareness.
00:30:47.240 –> 00:30:51.039
Truth is a faith thing, not a actuality thing.
00:30:51.279 –> 00:30:55.319
Okay. So when they say, by the Spirit, you may
00:30:55.319 –> 00:30:57.799
know the truth of all things, it’s not that you
00:30:57.799 –> 00:31:00.500
will know exactly that something is going to
00:31:00.500 –> 00:31:03.839
happen. It’s that what you know is your faith
00:31:03.839 –> 00:31:07.400
is true. You’re entering something new there.
00:31:07.700 –> 00:31:10.059
And that’s why we talk, so that you can enter
00:31:10.059 –> 00:31:14.359
new things. So the truth of all things. isn’t
00:31:14.359 –> 00:31:16.259
talking, isn’t speaking from God’s standpoint.
00:31:16.299 –> 00:31:18.759
It’s speaking from the readers. So if this was
00:31:18.759 –> 00:31:20.720
a book of scripture given to people and people
00:31:20.720 –> 00:31:23.180
are reading it and people say, and by the power
00:31:23.180 –> 00:31:25.539
of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all
00:31:25.539 –> 00:31:28.660
things, which is the person reading it. And your
00:31:28.660 –> 00:31:33.200
truth. Ye may know the truth of all things. Whatever
00:31:33.200 –> 00:31:35.220
things you come in contact. We talked about that
00:31:35.220 –> 00:31:38.880
your circle of concern is only very, it’s only
00:31:38.880 –> 00:31:41.279
so, so big. Even the things that you’re aware
00:31:41.279 –> 00:31:44.089
of, your awareness isn’t that big. You may know
00:31:44.089 –> 00:31:45.910
the truth of all things. You may know the truth
00:31:45.910 –> 00:31:49.069
of all things that you’re concerned about. In
00:31:49.069 –> 00:31:52.230
your area, ye, I think the center of that is ye,
00:31:52.309 –> 00:31:56.430
not all. It’s the reader. The reader can operate
00:31:56.430 –> 00:31:59.009
in truth. If you operate in truth, you’re doing
00:31:59.009 –> 00:32:00.930
the best that you can with the information you
00:32:00.930 –> 00:32:04.190
have in the area you have. And what the promise
00:32:04.190 –> 00:32:07.190
of the Holy Ghost of God is, is that in those
00:32:07.190 –> 00:32:09.650
areas, in those five things, those five things
00:32:09.650 –> 00:32:12.630
that you can operate with, they are going to
00:32:12.630 –> 00:32:15.559
be. true. You’re going to be as true as possible
00:32:15.559 –> 00:32:19.279
to that, to your central values, to the people
00:32:19.279 –> 00:32:22.140
around you, to your requirements. Is there a
00:32:22.140 –> 00:32:26.440
better way that that verse could have been stated
00:32:26.440 –> 00:32:29.740
to make it more clear so that people don’t read
00:32:29.740 –> 00:32:33.359
it and think, okay, by the spirit, if I feel
00:32:33.359 –> 00:32:35.400
the spirit, then that means that this thing that
00:32:35.400 –> 00:32:38.240
I’m encountering is true. This third party thing
00:32:38.240 –> 00:32:40.480
out, the story. Okay. We’re talking about stories
00:32:40.480 –> 00:32:43.099
that come up. about the second coming. So if
00:32:43.099 –> 00:32:46.960
I feel the spirit about John Pontius’s writings,
00:32:47.079 –> 00:32:49.500
that he should have been called as an apostle,
00:32:49.819 –> 00:32:54.279
but he died first, that maybe that’s, could it
00:32:54.279 –> 00:32:56.619
have been better? I don’t know. I think it’s
00:32:56.619 –> 00:32:59.599
written, well, it is written the way it is. And
00:32:59.599 –> 00:33:02.500
we’re trying to talk about it, ye being the central
00:33:02.500 –> 00:33:05.779
verse. And we know that the writer of it, the
00:33:05.779 –> 00:33:08.859
compiler of it, Joseph Smith wrote it once. He
00:33:08.859 –> 00:33:12.029
didn’t write it 50 times. I look at the way we’re
00:33:12.029 –> 00:33:13.809
writing books now or the way Jordan Peterson
00:33:13.809 –> 00:33:16.410
wrote his book, Maps of Meaning, said every sentence
00:33:16.410 –> 00:33:19.630
I wrote 50 times because I wanted to make sure
00:33:19.630 –> 00:33:22.450
it had exactly the meaning that I wanted. That’s
00:33:22.450 –> 00:33:27.269
the way we can write. Joseph Smith perhaps wrote
00:33:27.269 –> 00:33:30.109
it 50 times in his head. No, he didn’t have time.
00:33:30.349 –> 00:33:34.150
Or maybe he wrote it once and then, well, he
00:33:34.150 –> 00:33:37.250
did have time. He didn’t start writing until
00:33:37.250 –> 00:33:40.509
he was like 20. Five? How old was he when he
00:33:40.509 –> 00:33:42.230
actually sat down? He had 90 days. He started
00:33:42.230 –> 00:33:43.950
doing the Book of Mormon. He did it in 90 days.
00:33:44.109 –> 00:33:47.109
The whole thing in 90 days. No, no. The Book
00:33:47.109 –> 00:33:49.250
of Mormon. How old was he? How old was he? 23?
00:33:49.890 –> 00:33:54.549

He was in his 20s. Okay. So he had, from
00:33:54.549 –> 00:33:57.309
the time he started having an imagination all
00:33:57.309 –> 00:33:58.490
the way, that’s decades. Okay, that’s right.
00:33:58.789 –> 00:34:01.250
Or more. Because the story is – That he could
00:34:01.250 –> 00:34:02.990
have written it in his head. The story is that
00:34:02.990 –> 00:34:08.489
he put it down within 90s. Okay. So I – I understand
00:34:08.489 –> 00:34:11.309
what you said. I understand what you said. But
00:34:11.309 –> 00:34:14.389
still, 40 years. Jordan Peterson took 15 years
00:34:14.389 –> 00:34:17.250
to rewrite 50 times. So yes, in 40 years, he
00:34:17.250 –> 00:34:19.429
certainly could have written things many, many
00:34:19.429 –> 00:34:24.110
times. And then just before he went to commit
00:34:24.110 –> 00:34:28.110
suicide, he built the whole story so that the
00:34:28.110 –> 00:34:30.389
whole history was rewritten, however it worked.
00:34:30.570 –> 00:34:33.110
We don’t know what happened in 1844, whether
00:34:33.110 –> 00:34:36.530
it was suicide or a mob. Who knows? We don’t.
00:34:37.159 –> 00:34:41.099
Yeah, we certainly don’t know. We know what’s
00:34:41.099 –> 00:34:43.760
said about it. And we have gravestones, we have
00:34:43.760 –> 00:34:46.099
buildings, we have holes, and the story is there.
00:34:46.300 –> 00:34:49.559
But whether we believe the story is totally up
00:34:49.559 –> 00:34:53.880
to us, the individual, and faith and trust. And
00:34:53.880 –> 00:34:56.719
most people will believe what they’re taught
00:34:56.719 –> 00:34:58.679
about it. And your central point here was revelation.
00:34:59.039 –> 00:35:01.519
You believe what you’re taught by someone else,
00:35:01.579 –> 00:35:04.659
but really what that promise in the Book of Mormon
00:35:04.659 –> 00:35:08.309
says. Truth of all things is revelation. You
00:35:08.309 –> 00:35:11.090
can’t know anything except by revelation. Wait
00:35:11.090 –> 00:35:14.949
a minute. Is that what that means? Not only does
00:35:14.949 –> 00:35:17.230
it mean you can know everything by revelation,
00:35:17.530 –> 00:35:20.670
it means also that if you don’t have revelation,
00:35:20.849 –> 00:35:23.650
you can’t know anything? Is that what that, by
00:35:23.650 –> 00:35:26.909
extension, it means that? Most possibly. See,
00:35:26.969 –> 00:35:29.949
and that’s a new insight as well that you come
00:35:29.949 –> 00:35:32.210
up with. Perhaps that’s what revelation means.
00:35:32.550 –> 00:35:35.050
Unless it’s revealed to you, you can’t know it.
00:35:35.320 –> 00:35:37.639
So you can’t find it out. You can’t explore it.
00:35:37.679 –> 00:35:40.840
You can’t scientifically discover it. Penicillin
00:35:40.840 –> 00:35:44.400
was a revelation. Germ theory. It was a discovery.
00:35:44.599 –> 00:35:49.519
Discovery. Discovered. Revealed. Exactly. No,
00:35:49.699 –> 00:35:53.360
revealed means it was given to you, but discovered
00:35:53.360 –> 00:35:57.340
means you had to find it. You had to, you did
00:35:57.340 –> 00:36:00.179
it instead of it. It happened to you. So that’s
00:36:00.179 –> 00:36:03.280
your second premise. If you weren’t asking, can
00:36:03.280 –> 00:36:05.860
you be revealed anything you don’t ask for? Do
00:36:05.860 –> 00:36:07.699
you have to work for Revelation or is Revelation
00:36:07.699 –> 00:36:11.380
always just a slap in the face? John Pontius’
00:36:11.619 –> 00:36:16.880
subject, Spencer, he wasn’t asking for his near
00:36:16.880 –> 00:36:19.539
-death experience and his visions. They just
00:36:19.539 –> 00:36:23.039
appeared that he was on, that his first one happened
00:36:23.039 –> 00:36:26.239
when he was on an operating table nearly dead
00:36:26.239 –> 00:36:31.250
or dying. He died. And then he received the vision.
00:36:31.449 –> 00:36:33.829
A near -death experience. I don’t think that
00:36:33.829 –> 00:36:37.570
he was like, hey, before I go into this, could
00:36:37.570 –> 00:36:40.590
I have a vision? If I die, could I please have
00:36:40.590 –> 00:36:43.389
a vision? Like, I don’t think that he was doing
00:36:43.389 –> 00:36:46.449
that. Maybe he wasn’t. Maybe he was, though.
00:36:46.610 –> 00:36:48.409
He had to have been the right person for that
00:36:48.409 –> 00:36:51.949
vision. He didn’t say that he was. I think if
00:36:51.949 –> 00:36:54.349
he was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ
00:36:54.349 –> 00:36:57.389
of Latter -day Saints, he probably… He probably
00:36:57.389 –> 00:36:59.690
would have mentioned that he had a question that
00:36:59.690 –> 00:37:02.929
he wanted to get an answer for. Or anyone really
00:37:02.929 –> 00:37:06.190
is continually thinking about that. Anyone who’s
00:37:06.190 –> 00:37:07.690
a member of any church is continually thinking
00:37:07.690 –> 00:37:11.050
about their church. It’s a huge feature of the
00:37:11.050 –> 00:37:13.969
Mormon church. This is why Joseph Smith received
00:37:13.969 –> 00:37:16.510
his first vision was because he had a question.
00:37:16.829 –> 00:37:20.849
I think that people can receive revelation without
00:37:20.849 –> 00:37:23.590
asking for it. I think it can be a slap in the
00:37:23.590 –> 00:37:27.039
face. I think it’s more likely. It’s more likely
00:37:27.039 –> 00:37:30.400
that you’re asking, you’ve got a question, you
00:37:30.400 –> 00:37:32.719
need to figure something out. I think it’s more
00:37:32.719 –> 00:37:34.960
likely that you receive revelation that way,
00:37:35.019 –> 00:37:39.139
but I think that doesn’t mean that you can’t
00:37:39.139 –> 00:37:42.019
receive revelation unless you’re asking for something.
00:37:42.360 –> 00:37:47.800
That is insight, revelation. The Seven Habits,
00:37:47.820 –> 00:37:52.039
Stephen Covey talked about synergy. I think that’s
00:37:52.039 –> 00:37:54.800
synergy when the result is greater than the sum
00:37:54.800 –> 00:37:57.320
of the parts. You’re going to receive a result
00:37:57.320 –> 00:37:59.860
that’s greater than what you asked for. The other
00:37:59.860 –> 00:38:02.019
scriptural way of saying that is you’ll receive
00:38:02.019 –> 00:38:04.300
full measure pressed forth and running over.
00:38:04.500 –> 00:38:06.579
And it’s the law of the harvest. You’ll harvest
00:38:06.579 –> 00:38:11.539
what you reap. You’ll reap what you sow, greater
00:38:11.539 –> 00:38:14.880
than you sow, after you sow. So that’s kind of
00:38:14.880 –> 00:38:16.940
the law of the harvest. It says you’ve got to
00:38:16.940 –> 00:38:19.360
prepare yourself for the revelation. You’ve got
00:38:19.360 –> 00:38:20.980
to do something in advance. You’ve got to be
00:38:20.980 –> 00:38:23.960
ready somehow for a revelation. Synergy means
00:38:23.960 –> 00:38:27.519
you have to both be open to the conversation.
00:38:27.579 –> 00:38:30.679
You’ve got to join something on purpose in order
00:38:30.679 –> 00:38:33.500
for it to synergize, to gain some insight greater
00:38:33.500 –> 00:38:36.719
than what the two of you brought together. Intuition
00:38:36.719 –> 00:38:40.559
is kind of a slap in the face, the way I understand
00:38:40.559 –> 00:38:42.840
that word. It’s just something that happened
00:38:42.840 –> 00:38:47.579
to me. An apostrophe just hit my brain. That’s
00:38:47.579 –> 00:38:51.460
from Hook, a Hook reference. An epiphany. So
00:38:51.460 –> 00:38:53.719
there’s any different ways that we get information,
00:38:53.800 –> 00:38:56.900
but it’s us receiving information from something,
00:38:57.039 –> 00:39:01.739
from some serendipitous event or happening. And
00:39:01.739 –> 00:39:03.760
you call that revelation. I think it’s the same
00:39:03.760 –> 00:39:06.239
thing we talked about magic. What is magic? It’s
00:39:06.239 –> 00:39:08.739
just something we don’t understand. The magician
00:39:08.739 –> 00:39:11.039
understands it. That’s why he can do it. And
00:39:11.039 –> 00:39:12.920
we can act the same way in revelation. We do
00:39:12.920 –> 00:39:15.219
that all the time. We’ll reveal something in
00:39:15.219 –> 00:39:18.480
a story. That’s why stories are so fun to listen
00:39:18.480 –> 00:39:21.250
to when there’s a punchline. There’s a revelation.
00:39:21.289 –> 00:39:25.090
There’s a reveal in the story. Yeah, that makes
00:39:25.090 –> 00:39:28.190
for good literature, right? Right, right. Yeah,
00:39:28.289 –> 00:39:30.969
something you didn’t expect. It’s just a new
00:39:30.969 –> 00:39:35.869
story. Yeah. Well, then, where, why did we get
00:39:35.869 –> 00:39:39.349
on to figuring out what, oh, it was Moroni’s
00:39:39.349 –> 00:39:42.909
promise, revealed everything, all will be revealed.
00:39:43.150 –> 00:39:44.530
You may know the truth. What is the verse that
00:39:44.530 –> 00:39:46.369
you like? Ye may know the truth of all things.
00:39:46.989 –> 00:39:49.650
Ye may know the truth of all things. And ye is
00:39:49.650 –> 00:39:53.949
the point of that verse, not truth or all. Right.
00:39:54.010 –> 00:39:56.409
It’s the reader. It’s not the Holy Ghost is just
00:39:56.409 –> 00:40:00.349
an operand in it. All things is just an operand
00:40:00.349 –> 00:40:05.309
in it. But the pivot point is you can know, will
00:40:05.309 –> 00:40:08.309
know the truth of all things. You, whether you
00:40:08.309 –> 00:40:11.570
can or will or anything, it’s okay. It relates
00:40:11.570 –> 00:40:14.360
to you. What’s on the other side of the mountain
00:40:14.360 –> 00:40:17.199
doesn’t matter to you. So that’s not all things
00:40:17.199 –> 00:40:19.579
to you. All things to you is what’s in this room
00:40:19.579 –> 00:40:21.960
around you and who you’re seeing in the next
00:40:21.960 –> 00:40:25.800
hour. And then my question was, does that mean
00:40:25.800 –> 00:40:29.619
that you will not know the truth of anything
00:40:29.619 –> 00:40:33.460
unless you have the Spirit? Unless the Holy Ghost
00:40:33.460 –> 00:40:37.139
reveals it. And I had a thought. If you have
00:40:37.139 –> 00:40:40.840
any truth at all, does that mean it was from
00:40:40.840 –> 00:40:44.449
the Spirit, the Holy Ghost? There’s no other
00:40:44.449 –> 00:40:46.710
place it could have come from? Probably not.
00:40:46.929 –> 00:40:50.590
Dallin H. Oaks. And of course, we’re talking
00:40:50.590 –> 00:40:52.650
this thing. So Dallin H. Oaks has a statement
00:40:52.650 –> 00:40:56.170
a number of years ago. He says, the most sure
00:40:56.170 –> 00:40:58.230
knowledge you can gain is from the Holy Ghost.
00:40:58.369 –> 00:41:01.449
So I don’t know that you can’t get it from any
00:41:01.449 –> 00:41:04.030
other source, but the most sure knowledge you’re
00:41:04.030 –> 00:41:06.409
going to have when your testimony is strengthened
00:41:06.409 –> 00:41:09.289
to a point that you know that God has shared
00:41:09.289 –> 00:41:11.489
it with you, you had a revelation. You know,
00:41:11.489 –> 00:41:13.510
there’s a revelation. Joseph Smith’s statement
00:41:13.510 –> 00:41:17.030
in the history, I cannot deny it. What did he
00:41:17.030 –> 00:41:20.110
say? Something how it starts. I hadn’t seen a
00:41:20.110 –> 00:41:22.449
vision. I know it. I know that God knew it and
00:41:22.449 –> 00:41:24.610
I could not deny it. I knew that God knew it.
00:41:24.650 –> 00:41:28.289
So that’s the basis of his testimony. He knew
00:41:28.289 –> 00:41:30.809
that the supreme being in the universe came down
00:41:30.809 –> 00:41:33.170
to him and showed himself to him. And so he knew
00:41:33.170 –> 00:41:35.090
it. He could not deny it. So you get to a point
00:41:35.090 –> 00:41:37.730
you cannot deny it, no matter what. Your faith
00:41:37.730 –> 00:41:41.699
is so strong in that. That it’s secure. And I
00:41:41.699 –> 00:41:44.300
think that’s what Donald H. Oaks said, is that
00:41:44.300 –> 00:41:48.340
there is no knowledge so strong as that given
00:41:48.340 –> 00:41:50.239
by the Holy Spirit, something along that line.
00:41:50.420 –> 00:41:53.340
All right. So you can know things. Yes, I think
00:41:53.340 –> 00:41:55.119
you can. You can scientifically prove something.
00:41:55.280 –> 00:41:57.059
You just won’t be as strong. Continue to question
00:41:57.059 –> 00:42:00.920
it. But that scientific proving, like volcanoes,
00:42:01.019 –> 00:42:02.880
volcanic activity in the magma of the earth moving
00:42:02.880 –> 00:42:06.280
and, you know, tectonic, plate tectonics, you
00:42:06.280 –> 00:42:08.159
know, the plates moving around. We know that
00:42:08.159 –> 00:42:10.849
by scientific movement. Laurie Toy, she says,
00:42:10.909 –> 00:42:13.369
there’s going to be actions that we can make
00:42:13.369 –> 00:42:15.030
in the earth that’s going to cause those to move
00:42:15.030 –> 00:42:18.949
a certain way or not to move. And this is the
00:42:18.949 –> 00:42:21.110
vision of what’s going to happen. And then Colorado
00:42:21.110 –> 00:42:23.409
is going to be oceanfront. Denver will be oceanfront.
00:42:23.690 –> 00:42:26.929
But she doesn’t know it very strongly because
00:42:26.929 –> 00:42:28.849
she doesn’t have the Holy Spirit telling her.
00:42:29.369 –> 00:42:32.429
Well, except the Holy Spirit did tell her by
00:42:32.429 –> 00:42:35.760
these. Buddhist monks. So I believe she knows
00:42:35.760 –> 00:42:38.739
it strongly enough to write the maps and to have
00:42:38.739 –> 00:42:41.579
lived it for the last 40 years. She’s still living
00:42:41.579 –> 00:42:45.639
that dream, that requirement. So it’s strong
00:42:45.639 –> 00:42:49.599
to her, but for some reason, she doesn’t have
00:42:49.599 –> 00:42:51.619
the largest church in the world on that thought
00:42:51.619 –> 00:42:54.000
or that idea. There are probably people that
00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:57.239
still believe that story, but it’s not prevalent
00:42:57.239 –> 00:43:01.440
in every community. Largest church in the world.
00:43:01.480 –> 00:43:04.809
Did you mean to say that? Yes. So is that an
00:43:04.809 –> 00:43:11.449
indicator of truth? Size. Does size matter? And
00:43:11.449 –> 00:43:14.090
that’s a common joke because it’s such a common
00:43:14.090 –> 00:43:22.329
joke. But really, it’s, I forgot the word. I
00:43:22.329 –> 00:43:24.809
don’t know what the word is. The church, how
00:43:24.809 –> 00:43:27.510
can the LDS church think that they have anything
00:43:27.510 –> 00:43:29.750
to speak about when they’re less than one -tenth
00:43:29.750 –> 00:43:31.630
of one percent of the population of the world?
00:43:32.010 –> 00:43:34.809
There’s nothing. And the fact that Muslim, you
00:43:34.809 –> 00:43:38.469
know, Muhammad has followers that are 42 % of
00:43:38.469 –> 00:43:40.710
the world. That must be the right thing because
00:43:40.710 –> 00:43:44.570
that’s got the numbers. Christianity is 38 %
00:43:44.570 –> 00:43:47.130
or maybe 52%. I don’t know. Christianity, I think
00:43:47.130 –> 00:43:49.469
is ahead of Muslimism, but they’re right there
00:43:49.469 –> 00:43:52.170
close. They are the two people, Christianity
00:43:52.170 –> 00:43:56.670
and Muhammad. And Islam, right? Yeah. And Confucianism
00:43:56.670 –> 00:44:01.110
is really small and Japan, Shinto and whoever
00:44:01.110 –> 00:44:05.630
else. Buddhist monks. But there’s a Buddhist
00:44:05.630 –> 00:44:07.949
temple in almost every community. They’re everywhere.
00:44:08.250 –> 00:44:12.210
They’re just very small. Right. The congregations
00:44:12.210 –> 00:44:15.809
are small, right? Right. But they’re around the
00:44:15.809 –> 00:44:21.070
whole globe. Largest religion. I searched largest
00:44:21.070 –> 00:44:23.789
church and it showed me the biggest church building.
00:44:24.130 –> 00:44:26.889
Yeah. The cathedral. That’s not what I’m looking
00:44:26.889 –> 00:44:29.090
for. The largest cathedral. That’s actually the
00:44:29.090 –> 00:44:30.750
Pentagon is the largest church in the world.
00:44:31.630 –> 00:44:35.349
the pentagon christianity islam and then irreligion
00:44:35.349 –> 00:44:39.070
and then hinduism okay hinduism is pretty strong
00:44:39.070 –> 00:44:41.110
then they got to be far away from each other
00:44:41.110 –> 00:44:43.829
islam and christianity have to be really close
00:44:43.829 –> 00:44:46.449
and then hinduism has to be farther down quite
00:44:46.449 –> 00:44:50.349
a ways down number wise it’s about half percentage
00:44:50.349 –> 00:44:54.469
of of christianity so who’s ahead christianity
00:44:54.469 –> 00:44:57.230
is the head of islam yeah christianity is it
00:44:57.230 –> 00:45:02.329
says 31 % is Christianity. 24 % is Islam. Okay.
00:45:02.389 –> 00:45:07.670
16 % is irreligion. Yeah. Atheism is gaining
00:45:07.670 –> 00:45:14.289
speed. No religion. Yeah. Okay. So largest, it
00:45:14.289 –> 00:45:17.670
doesn’t matter if Lori Toy has a very large amount
00:45:17.670 –> 00:45:22.170
of followers or if it’s only her family. Yeah.
00:45:22.190 –> 00:45:24.710
What matters is the strength of your testimony.
00:45:25.309 –> 00:45:27.789
But then that still focuses on you. That’s why
00:45:27.789 –> 00:45:29.909
I think you is the pivotal thing of that Moroni
00:45:29.909 –> 00:45:32.250
10 .5. You may know the truth of all things.
00:45:32.730 –> 00:45:36.090
Your truth isn’t necessarily, and that’s keying
00:45:36.090 –> 00:45:37.909
to the fact that truth was subjective. I think
00:45:37.909 –> 00:45:39.989
we came up to what that is one of the conclusions
00:45:39.989 –> 00:45:43.309
in truth. It’s based on who you are and what
00:45:43.309 –> 00:45:47.269
you are doing, your truth. And so if that’s the
00:45:47.269 –> 00:45:50.389
view of that scripture, then LDS literature,
00:45:50.670 –> 00:45:53.679
LDS scriptures. can say that there’s a subjective
00:45:53.679 –> 00:45:57.119
truth. Every member has its own truth, has their
00:45:57.119 –> 00:46:00.820
own truth. About the religion. The religion,
00:46:00.960 –> 00:46:02.400
whether the prophet, and that’s kind of what
00:46:02.400 –> 00:46:04.980
Stevenson (Renlund) said about that. You know, you can
00:46:04.980 –> 00:46:07.980
judge your runway. You can’t receive religion
00:46:07.980 –> 00:46:10.340
or information for something that’s not on your
00:46:10.340 –> 00:46:12.519
runway. Let me tell you why he told that story.
00:46:12.679 –> 00:46:15.139
And we’ll include that talk here too, because
00:46:15.139 –> 00:46:17.340
he said there was a gentleman came to him that
00:46:17.340 –> 00:46:19.659
said he had a vision that under the church office
00:46:19.659 –> 00:46:21.820
building, there is buried. the new scriptures
00:46:21.820 –> 00:46:23.699
that are going to come out and they’re there.
00:46:23.820 –> 00:46:26.199
So we have to dig down under, it wasn’t church
00:46:26.199 –> 00:46:27.619
office building under this building. We have
00:46:27.619 –> 00:46:29.300
to get into the basement and dig in this building
00:46:29.300 –> 00:46:32.199
and I need you to pray about it. And he said,
00:46:32.239 –> 00:46:34.460
I’m not going to pray about it because that’s
00:46:34.460 –> 00:46:37.820
not your runway. There’s no reason. Yeah. As
00:46:37.820 –> 00:46:40.719
an apostle, he said, no, not going to pray about
00:46:40.719 –> 00:46:43.460
what you say is the new scripture. That’s going
00:46:43.460 –> 00:46:45.659
to come out because we know that scripture is
00:46:45.659 –> 00:46:47.000
going to come through the prophet. That’s his
00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:49.579
runway. That’s the prophet prophets runway. It’s
00:46:49.579 –> 00:46:52.320
not. some other person’s runway to say, where
00:46:52.320 –> 00:46:54.599
are the new scriptures coming from? And of course,
00:46:54.619 –> 00:46:56.800
that’s the same guideline because the ruler’s
00:46:56.800 –> 00:46:58.460
in charge, you know, and you can fight against
00:46:58.460 –> 00:47:01.420
that by saying the Pharisees, when Christ showed
00:47:01.420 –> 00:47:06.199
up, Christ identified a new path. The Pharisees
00:47:06.199 –> 00:47:08.239
knew that wasn’t the right path. No, I’m not
00:47:08.239 –> 00:47:10.900
going to pray about it as a Pharisee. And Joseph
00:47:10.900 –> 00:47:13.619
Smith, when he came along, you know, the preachers,
00:47:13.619 –> 00:47:17.139
the priests, the Methodists and Lutherans, everyone
00:47:17.139 –> 00:47:18.920
that was in that day, the Fuhrer of religion,
00:47:19.079 –> 00:47:21.059
they knew what was going on. That’s not your
00:47:21.059 –> 00:47:24.460
runway. That’s my runway. You can’t, you know,
00:47:24.519 –> 00:47:29.000
God can’t talk to you. Both of those things that
00:47:29.000 –> 00:47:31.019
happened, Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith, if they
00:47:31.019 –> 00:47:32.980
happened, they happened on a different runway
00:47:32.980 –> 00:47:35.559
than the one that Elder Stevenson said is the
00:47:35.559 –> 00:47:41.900
runway. Who’s to say this guy isn’t right? Right.
00:47:41.960 –> 00:47:43.659
Who’s to say? What if he is right? And that’s
00:47:43.659 –> 00:47:47.880
all these. policies, all these visions, visions
00:47:47.880 –> 00:47:52.820
of glory and Lori (Toye), they may be right. And who’s
00:47:52.820 –> 00:47:56.880
to say? And it’s the truth to you. If there’s
00:47:56.880 –> 00:47:58.440
a number of people that are to follow her, they
00:47:58.440 –> 00:48:01.599
will. There are clearly a number of people following
00:48:01.599 –> 00:48:04.599
Joseph Smith today that are not following the
00:48:04.599 –> 00:48:06.840
current prophets that still believe the Book
00:48:06.840 –> 00:48:08.960
of Mormon, believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet,
00:48:09.000 –> 00:48:12.400
that when he passed away, prophets ended and
00:48:12.400 –> 00:48:15.340
Brigham Young did not take up the mantle. And
00:48:15.340 –> 00:48:19.260
so that’s a growing faction. It’s a belief system.
00:48:19.340 –> 00:48:21.920
And to them, that is the truth of all things,
00:48:22.019 –> 00:48:27.340
clearly. So considering that everyone has their
00:48:27.340 –> 00:48:31.420
own runway, how can anyone feel secure on their
00:48:31.420 –> 00:48:36.820
runway, knowing that it’s all subjective? That
00:48:36.820 –> 00:48:40.780
brings up this self -driving cars. How can you
00:48:40.780 –> 00:48:42.940
be confident that every car out there is going
00:48:42.940 –> 00:48:46.440
to drive? the right way. And that’s just driving,
00:48:46.539 –> 00:48:48.679
not self -driving cars even, but people driving
00:48:48.679 –> 00:48:51.800
on the freeway. How can you have trust that you’re
00:48:51.800 –> 00:48:55.420
driving on a highway that’s not divided and that
00:48:55.420 –> 00:48:58.460
you’re not going to get head -on collisioned?
00:48:58.460 –> 00:49:00.940
Any of those cars could do it to you without
00:49:00.940 –> 00:49:04.219
your knowing. Maybe that’s related. Maybe that’s
00:49:04.219 –> 00:49:08.239
a, how is that? How is that related to what I
00:49:08.239 –> 00:49:11.900
was asking? I think it’s the same faith and trust.
00:49:12.489 –> 00:49:14.210
How can you know? Didn’t you say how can you
00:49:14.210 –> 00:49:16.409
know that one of those stories is right or wrong?
00:49:16.670 –> 00:49:20.650
How can you know that yours is? Not how can you
00:49:20.650 –> 00:49:23.849
know, it’s how can you feel comfortable knowing
00:49:23.849 –> 00:49:27.829
that there are so many equally viable options
00:49:27.829 –> 00:49:30.869
that you could choose from? How can you move
00:49:30.869 –> 00:49:34.070
forward? How can you move forward? How can you
00:49:34.070 –> 00:49:36.909
not just fall into agnosticism and be like, eh,
00:49:37.190 –> 00:49:42.000
well, I’ll just live a good life. Yeah. What
00:49:42.000 –> 00:49:44.900
is apathy is the different, the opposite of what?
00:49:45.619 –> 00:49:49.079
Love. Love. I love this. Apathy is the opposite
00:49:49.079 –> 00:49:51.760
of love. I don’t care. I love or I don’t care.
00:49:51.900 –> 00:49:54.139
How can you have love? How can you love anything
00:49:54.139 –> 00:49:58.320
if you don’t know which would be true? And if
00:49:58.320 –> 00:50:02.420
that verse still is focused on you, you’re going
00:50:02.420 –> 00:50:04.179
to know the truth. Maybe someone else will know
00:50:04.179 –> 00:50:06.960
the truth of the other, and they do. That’s obvious.
00:50:07.300 –> 00:50:09.380
Someone else knows the truth of their church.
00:50:09.880 –> 00:50:11.900
Because they know that and they feel it and they
00:50:11.900 –> 00:50:16.880
exuberate in it. It becomes them. And they even,
00:50:16.900 –> 00:50:18.820
they promote it. They build buildings for it.
00:50:18.920 –> 00:50:21.159
They dedicate their whole life to it. And everyone
00:50:21.159 –> 00:50:25.119
who has a religious fervor has that feeling towards
00:50:25.119 –> 00:50:28.000
what they’re doing. Even if it’s building rocket
00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.980
ships to go to Mars, Elon Musk has a religious
00:50:30.980 –> 00:50:33.440
fervor for what he’s doing. He’s got a reason.
00:50:33.500 –> 00:50:35.840
He’s got a mission. Whether God put that mission
00:50:35.840 –> 00:50:38.690
in him or he built it on his own faith. There’s
00:50:38.690 –> 00:50:41.530
nothing going to dissuade him from making an
00:50:41.530 –> 00:50:44.150
intergalactic starship. Intergalactic, maybe
00:50:44.150 –> 00:50:47.769
not intergalactic, interplanetary starship. And
00:50:47.769 –> 00:50:50.269
maybe it’ll go intergalactic too. Who knows if
00:50:50.269 –> 00:50:53.409
you can get out that far. But we’re just working
00:50:53.409 –> 00:50:56.190
on the planetary move now. And the moon has been
00:50:56.190 –> 00:50:59.190
out of reach for 50 years. And now all of a sudden,
00:50:59.210 –> 00:51:00.949
three or four people have landed on the moon.
00:51:01.610 –> 00:51:05.769
Not people, but ships at this point, machines.
00:51:06.530 –> 00:51:10.579
So now the moon landing, actually happened. And
00:51:10.579 –> 00:51:13.619
you can’t say that the earth is flat. No one
00:51:13.619 –> 00:51:15.699
ever landed on the moon. It was faked, whatever.
00:51:16.039 –> 00:51:19.500
So stories, we can prove them. If the moon is
00:51:19.500 –> 00:51:21.260
a revelation that it’s not made out of cheese,
00:51:21.460 –> 00:51:23.800
then that’s just a revelation. But now we’ve
00:51:23.800 –> 00:51:27.460
proven it. We learned more about it. So you can
00:51:27.460 –> 00:51:29.699
learn and you do learn, but how do you move forward
00:51:29.699 –> 00:51:33.940
with 900 different churches? Which church should
00:51:33.940 –> 00:51:38.059
I be with? I think the thing that Some people
00:51:38.059 –> 00:51:42.800
choose to do, and I’m one of those people, is
00:51:42.800 –> 00:51:46.840
recognize that it’s likely that none of them
00:51:46.840 –> 00:51:49.119
are anything. It’s possible. Likely. Even likely.
00:51:49.219 –> 00:51:50.760
You’re even more than possible. You’re likely.
00:51:51.199 –> 00:51:54.840
Likely, yeah. It’s a strong likelihood, a strong
00:51:54.840 –> 00:51:59.380
likely, that from where I’m looking at it, none
00:51:59.380 –> 00:52:02.480
of it could, none of it makes sense. Not even
00:52:02.480 –> 00:52:09.050
religion at all. Deities and… And predestination,
00:52:09.190 –> 00:52:12.489
it just doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense. It’s
00:52:12.489 –> 00:52:16.070
all likely just a story to you. Mythology. Yeah.
00:52:16.710 –> 00:52:21.030
Mythology. It’s useful. It keeps societies together.
00:52:21.190 –> 00:52:23.590
It keeps people treating each other nice. You
00:52:23.590 –> 00:52:26.429
keep moving forward by, you have to pigeonhole
00:52:26.429 –> 00:52:30.210
it in that idea, in that concept. It’s a story
00:52:30.210 –> 00:52:32.650
that keeps, it’s a societal story that’s useful.
00:52:32.829 –> 00:52:35.730
It’s just, these ones aren’t useful for me. And
00:52:35.730 –> 00:52:37.349
actually, none of them are useful for me, but
00:52:37.349 –> 00:52:40.489
just the general idea of it is useful. And that’s
00:52:40.489 –> 00:52:43.590
how you move forward, not knowing which faction
00:52:43.590 –> 00:52:47.469
to join. That’s how I move forward in the knowledge
00:52:47.469 –> 00:52:51.030
that there are so many that everybody are legitimately
00:52:51.030 –> 00:52:55.510
choosing on their own terms. And I can’t choose
00:52:55.510 –> 00:52:57.750
any of them because none of them make sense.
00:52:57.949 –> 00:53:00.190
And that was Joseph Smith’s direct statement
00:53:00.190 –> 00:53:04.940
too, right? So I’m the next prophetess of a church?
00:53:05.139 –> 00:53:06.639
Is that what you’re saying? Only if revelation
00:53:06.639 –> 00:53:08.900
occurs to you and you actually get a vision of
00:53:08.900 –> 00:53:11.000
something. When you get the vision, then you
00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:15.139
can become the Laurie Toy or the Spencer or the
00:53:15.139 –> 00:53:17.360
John Pontius. You can become the person that
00:53:17.360 –> 00:53:20.380
then writes the book or the Laurie Vallow that
00:53:20.380 –> 00:53:25.519
becomes this goddess in your own right. Julie
00:53:25.519 –> 00:53:29.090
Rowe, right? Everyone who has a platform. That’s
00:53:29.090 –> 00:53:31.030
developed their platform because they know in
00:53:31.030 –> 00:53:34.269
themselves that they are the next status, next
00:53:34.269 –> 00:53:38.230
profit, next direction. This is how we’re supposed
00:53:38.230 –> 00:53:43.550
to go. But, okay, can we step up to God’s platform?
00:53:43.789 –> 00:53:48.530
How does God see that? If there is a God of the
00:53:48.530 –> 00:53:50.789
universe who put this all on here and he has
00:53:50.789 –> 00:53:52.750
900 different churches going different directions,
00:53:53.030 –> 00:53:56.869
how can he still be, you know, we can’t. supposed
00:53:56.869 –> 00:53:58.710
to sit on god’s throne but if you’re on god’s
00:53:58.710 –> 00:54:00.389
throne and he created this and there’s 900 different
00:54:00.389 –> 00:54:02.969
churches in your creation you have this earth
00:54:02.969 –> 00:54:06.210
and there’s no way that they can do it and now
00:54:06.210 –> 00:54:10.090
there’s an increasing number of atheistic thoughts
00:54:10.090 –> 00:54:14.969
out there because there’s just there’s it’s highly
00:54:14.969 –> 00:54:19.030
probable highly likely that there is no definite
00:54:19.030 –> 00:54:23.110
path forward so with that case how does god view
00:54:23.110 –> 00:54:27.199
it How would I feel if I was a god of this world?
00:54:27.500 –> 00:54:30.480
Right. What would be your perspective as the
00:54:30.480 –> 00:54:33.059
god that created it? And now there’s all this
00:54:33.059 –> 00:54:36.219
faction out there. And what would you do? Let’s
00:54:36.219 –> 00:54:40.400
see. Well, suppose, am I a vengeful god? Am I
00:54:40.400 –> 00:54:42.719
a caring god? Are these my children? Are these
00:54:42.719 –> 00:54:48.579
my creations? What story am I in? Even that story
00:54:48.579 –> 00:54:51.639
is interesting, right? Because it has… You’re
00:54:51.639 –> 00:54:54.340
talking about how everyone, and that’s what we’ll
00:54:54.340 –> 00:54:55.840
talk about. Hopefully we do. And we talk about
00:54:55.840 –> 00:54:58.039
Jordan Peterson’s question on God. He says, what
00:54:58.039 –> 00:55:01.159
God do you mean? What do you mean, God? That’s
00:55:01.159 –> 00:55:03.940
what you just asked. What do you mean, God? Which
00:55:03.940 –> 00:55:06.380
one? Yeah. And you’d have to step up to that
00:55:06.380 –> 00:55:09.820
platform outside. And I don’t know that we philosophically,
00:55:09.840 –> 00:55:12.739
a finite mind can comprehend that. You know,
00:55:12.739 –> 00:55:15.780
you can just talk about limitations because you
00:55:15.780 –> 00:55:19.230
talk about infinite omniscience. Does God have
00:55:19.230 –> 00:55:21.869
love or does God just have apathy? They can do
00:55:21.869 –> 00:55:24.289
whatever they want. I know the end. They can
00:55:24.289 –> 00:55:26.389
do whatever they want. 900 different churches,
00:55:26.489 –> 00:55:29.110
fine with me. Well, in the Visions of Glory book,
00:55:29.329 –> 00:55:33.329
God created a place for those who wanted nothing
00:55:33.329 –> 00:55:37.230
to do with God to live eternally. Did it say
00:55:37.230 –> 00:55:40.050
that? The outer darkness or something like that?
00:55:40.530 –> 00:55:44.489
No, it was a nice place for them to live where
00:55:44.489 –> 00:55:47.090
they could be happy. We talked about that in…
00:55:47.440 –> 00:55:50.099
having anything to do with god immortality and
00:55:50.099 –> 00:55:53.099
eternal life that in that conversation about
00:55:53.099 –> 00:55:55.260
no matter where you’re at it’s going to be better
00:55:55.260 –> 00:55:58.460
than here and everyone’s going to be a kingdom
00:55:58.460 –> 00:56:01.519
of glory that’s what that visions of glory may
00:56:01.519 –> 00:56:04.320
be yeah you could call it outer darkness from
00:56:04.320 –> 00:56:06.579
the top but but we talked about that animosity
00:56:06.579 –> 00:56:08.400
there won’t be animosity that’s people in the
00:56:08.400 –> 00:56:10.199
celestial kingdom won’t be looking down and saying
00:56:10.199 –> 00:56:12.239
that’s outer darkness they’ll say you’re enjoying
00:56:12.239 –> 00:56:15.619
that glory that’s great we’re happy for you sister
00:56:15.619 –> 00:56:18.980
that you’re enjoying that glory and it will be
00:56:18.980 –> 00:56:21.000
fun in a comfortable place if that’s what the
00:56:21.000 –> 00:56:22.760
visions of glory brought it out it’s probably
00:56:22.760 –> 00:56:25.340
that same principle that there’s not going to
00:56:25.340 –> 00:56:28.360
be hellfire and damnation fire and brimstone
00:56:28.360 –> 00:56:31.699
for eternity ever burning and never be able to
00:56:31.699 –> 00:56:34.940
come to any comfort unless that’s what you’re
00:56:34.940 –> 00:56:39.139
into well yeah masochism could happen maybe someone
00:56:39.139 –> 00:56:42.079
will want that it will be still oh they’re here
00:56:42.079 –> 00:56:44.340
on the earth so they must still want that there
00:56:45.900 –> 00:56:49.719
Revelation. I think what we’re coming to is that
00:56:49.719 –> 00:56:52.400
it’s an individual thing. So what do you do when
00:56:52.400 –> 00:56:55.920
people are following a revelation that’s harming
00:56:55.920 –> 00:56:59.960
themselves, harming people around them, their
00:56:59.960 –> 00:57:03.139
families, if they believe they received a revelation
00:57:03.139 –> 00:57:07.219
that they must kill their children? Like, is
00:57:07.219 –> 00:57:09.880
that revelation that they received a valid revelation?
00:57:10.260 –> 00:57:14.079
And that’s why she’s (Lori Vallow) on trial again. I don’t.
00:57:14.480 –> 00:57:19.360
Yeah. Clearly, the laws of the land, decency,
00:57:19.420 –> 00:57:22.840
human decency, says you’ve got to, that’s not
00:57:22.840 –> 00:57:26.440
true. You know, it’s hurting other people, liberty
00:57:26.440 –> 00:57:31.179
and property. A person’s own being has to be
00:57:31.179 –> 00:57:34.599
paramount. The laws of the land are clearly against
00:57:34.599 –> 00:57:38.320
what Lori Vallow did to her children based on
00:57:38.320 –> 00:57:41.000
the revelation that she received. Right. And
00:57:41.000 –> 00:57:45.050
in her mind, they’re just fine. they’re they’re
00:57:45.050 –> 00:57:48.829
better off and and the same thing with andrea
00:57:48.829 –> 00:57:51.670
yates years ago with her seven children they’re
00:57:51.670 –> 00:57:54.090
better off where they are even though they had
00:57:54.090 –> 00:57:56.170
to go through this little struggle they’re much
00:57:56.170 –> 00:57:58.909
better than being here on the earth jonestown
00:57:58.909 –> 00:58:01.190
massacre i mean those who drink the kool -aid
00:58:01.190 –> 00:58:05.030
they’re much better off moving on to that and
00:58:05.030 –> 00:58:07.889
it’s all individual the the one thing that comes
00:58:07.889 –> 00:58:10.590
in through scripture you know the and there’s
00:58:10.590 –> 00:58:13.400
the the verse the statement that When Jesus Christ
00:58:13.400 –> 00:58:15.820
appears, every knee shall bow and every tongue
00:58:15.820 –> 00:58:19.679
confess that Jesus is the Christ, the ruler of
00:58:19.679 –> 00:58:22.199
the world. It may be possible that at one time,
00:58:22.260 –> 00:58:25.340
and that’s what my full vision of a God, if there’s
00:58:25.340 –> 00:58:27.059
a God over there, at some point he’s going to
00:58:27.059 –> 00:58:30.800
say, this is me. And it’s not that you were right
00:58:30.800 –> 00:58:32.539
or you were wrong, but this is the step moving
00:58:32.539 –> 00:58:35.579
forward. Let’s eliminate all history, all the
00:58:35.579 –> 00:58:37.940
past. It doesn’t matter if you’re Confucianism
00:58:37.940 –> 00:58:42.960
or Islam or LDS. Mormon or RLDS, whatever you
00:58:42.960 –> 00:58:45.340
are, that doesn’t matter anymore because now
00:58:45.340 –> 00:58:49.139
going forward, I am the king of the world, the
00:58:49.139 –> 00:58:52.599
leader of the universe, the creator. I am Jesus
00:58:52.599 –> 00:58:56.139
Christ and I am now, what are they called? Reigning
00:58:56.139 –> 00:58:59.239
on earth and everyone will understand and agree.
00:58:59.440 –> 00:59:01.860
And the part of the tribulation is that the chaff
00:59:01.860 –> 00:59:04.300
will be burned off. Those who don’t agree will
00:59:04.300 –> 00:59:07.960
just disappear. And that’s the idea of left behind
00:59:07.960 –> 00:59:10.869
and taken. They’re just… All the good people
00:59:10.869 –> 00:59:12.949
you brought up to rise with Christ and then come
00:59:12.949 –> 00:59:14.630
back down and everyone else will be burned at
00:59:14.630 –> 00:59:17.130
is coming. And that burning will be pleasurable.
00:59:18.389 –> 00:59:22.170
Yeah. Those people that are burned away in the
00:59:22.170 –> 00:59:26.250
tribulation, are they moving to the good place?
00:59:26.610 –> 00:59:30.289
The afterlife? To the other good place. They’re
00:59:30.289 –> 00:59:33.650
moving on. Right. Okay. It’s not that they’re
00:59:33.650 –> 00:59:36.789
like being destroyed forever. They still live.
00:59:38.440 –> 00:59:41.179
Immortality is still there. And they move on
00:59:41.179 –> 00:59:44.280
to that level of glory that is fun for them and
00:59:44.280 –> 00:59:47.099
enjoyable the rest of eternity. They can sit
00:59:47.099 –> 00:59:50.639
there in heaven being bored. Well, that kind
00:59:50.639 –> 00:59:53.579
of sounds like fine. Nobody has to worry about
00:59:53.579 –> 00:59:55.900
whether they’re believing anything or not because
00:59:55.900 –> 00:59:58.500
they’re still going to have a nice life when
00:59:58.500 –> 01:00:01.039
they die. So you could believe any prophecy you’d
01:00:01.039 –> 01:00:03.440
like and you can kill whoever you want because
01:00:03.440 –> 01:00:06.769
when you die, you’re going to have. You’re going
01:00:06.769 –> 01:00:08.929
to have your happy place, right? Someone like
01:00:08.929 –> 01:00:13.510
a Ted Bundy, a serial killer, Hitler. Hitler’s
01:00:13.510 –> 01:00:16.570
somewhere. And if it’s a happy place, that’s
01:00:16.570 –> 01:00:21.010
fine. Has Hitler had his temple work done yet?
01:00:21.010 –> 01:00:22.869
Oh, I don’t know. I know the Holocaust victims.
01:00:23.789 –> 01:00:27.230
Temple work, because that’s an earthly thing.
01:00:27.369 –> 01:00:29.289
Holocaust victims aren’t able to have their temple
01:00:29.289 –> 01:00:32.150
work done either. They’re Jewish. Because of
01:00:32.150 –> 01:00:35.860
the law of the land. Right. You can’t just baptize
01:00:35.860 –> 01:00:38.760
somebody who died for their religion into another
01:00:38.760 –> 01:00:42.860
religion. Right. Not until the answers are there.
01:00:43.000 –> 01:00:45.739
And so that’s still the issue. And that’s why
01:00:45.739 –> 01:00:48.179
each faction, each church, even the Church of
01:00:48.179 –> 01:00:51.599
Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints, is different
01:00:51.599 –> 01:00:53.420
than the Church of Jesus Christ in the Second
01:00:53.420 –> 01:00:56.059
Coming, where he is reigning personally on the
01:00:56.059 –> 01:00:58.880
earth. Then those things potentially could be
01:00:58.880 –> 01:01:00.619
done. He says all past things are done away.
01:01:01.000 –> 01:01:05.010
Let’s get rid of all that. For a thousand years,
01:01:05.070 –> 01:01:06.630
we’re going to work on building the celestial
01:01:06.630 –> 01:01:09.409
kingdom and getting everyone in there if they
01:01:09.409 –> 01:01:11.789
choose to go. And that’s just, that’s again,
01:01:11.849 –> 01:01:15.409
one story. That is one story out of all of them
01:01:15.409 –> 01:01:18.730
that people can choose from. And would you say
01:01:18.730 –> 01:01:20.670
it’s likely that someone will choose that story
01:01:20.670 –> 01:01:23.809
if they were raised into that story, if that
01:01:23.809 –> 01:01:26.230
was their heritage? That’s the only way they
01:01:26.230 –> 01:01:28.789
can choose it. Or if they were introduced to
01:01:28.789 –> 01:01:33.010
it or proselytized into it. Yeah, you can’t know
01:01:33.010 –> 01:01:35.269
a story unless you know it. Can it be revealed
01:01:35.269 –> 01:01:38.250
to you? Maybe there are people, there are stories
01:01:38.250 –> 01:01:40.329
of people that were surprised. There’s going
01:01:40.329 –> 01:01:42.489
to be a book. You need to pay attention to it.
01:01:42.849 –> 01:01:46.949
Or look at that book on the television screen.
01:01:47.070 –> 01:01:49.969
Find it. Find that book. And they were revealed
01:01:49.969 –> 01:01:52.170
to find that book and study it and work through
01:01:52.170 –> 01:01:55.909
it and join. Or the whole congregations in the
01:01:55.909 –> 01:01:59.070
early days of the church that were baptized because
01:01:59.070 –> 01:02:02.000
the preacher said, I’ve been revealed. This is
01:02:02.000 –> 01:02:04.480
the way for us to go. And so the whole congregation
01:02:04.480 –> 01:02:07.340
goes with him. You have all of these stories
01:02:07.340 –> 01:02:11.659
in the LDS church. Just like that everywhere
01:02:11.659 –> 01:02:15.900
else. Islam, there’s in the Palestinians. I’m
01:02:15.900 –> 01:02:19.460
sure they’re all as religiously devout to what
01:02:19.460 –> 01:02:22.880
they do, even though their whole plan is to kill
01:02:22.880 –> 01:02:26.019
Israel. Run over them with their cars, all the
01:02:26.019 –> 01:02:28.599
little kids, news reports and things. It’s just
01:02:28.599 –> 01:02:30.320
interesting how they say that. But it’s their
01:02:30.320 –> 01:02:34.039
religious standpoint that they need to eradicate
01:02:34.039 –> 01:02:37.719
this humanity, this part of humanity. That’s
01:02:37.719 –> 01:02:41.320
their role. That’s their job. Okay. You read
01:02:41.320 –> 01:02:43.760
Visions of Glory. You know what’s in it, right?
01:02:44.260 –> 01:02:46.500
You know what’s in the book. I’m going to ask
01:02:46.500 –> 01:02:49.099
you, do you believe everything that’s in the
01:02:49.099 –> 01:02:53.480
book? Do you believe that this is how it will
01:02:53.480 –> 01:02:56.340
be? When the tribulation starts? I’ll answer
01:02:56.340 –> 01:02:59.699
that two different ways. I believe that the book
01:02:59.699 –> 01:03:02.320
is there and it’s a true story of someone who
01:03:02.320 –> 01:03:06.380
has that thought. I do not have… Okay, that’s
01:03:06.380 –> 01:03:08.400
the easy statement. Yes, I believe in the book.
01:03:08.480 –> 01:03:10.480
I believe in John Pontius. I believe he said
01:03:10.480 –> 01:03:13.320
everything he said. I have no faith whatsoever
01:03:13.320 –> 01:03:16.699
in those things being actual events that will
01:03:16.699 –> 01:03:21.280
occur. Absolutely not. There’s no way that that’s
01:03:21.280 –> 01:03:24.079
going to happen. In my… In my church, in my
01:03:24.079 –> 01:03:28.099
world, my individual world, we don’t go through
01:03:28.099 –> 01:03:30.840
a tribulation period that is noticeable. The
01:03:30.840 –> 01:03:33.300
tribulation is going to happen. Israel, Gaza
01:03:33.300 –> 01:03:35.440
Strip, the Gaza Strip is a horrible tribulation.
01:03:35.460 –> 01:03:37.699
That’s Armageddon. It’s as bad as it’s going
01:03:37.699 –> 01:03:41.139
to get. And to that area, it’s not necessarily
01:03:41.139 –> 01:03:42.599
going to happen everywhere. When the burning
01:03:42.599 –> 01:03:44.599
comes, I don’t know that it’s going to be an
01:03:44.599 –> 01:03:47.599
actual fire like Pacific Palisades that burns
01:03:47.599 –> 01:03:50.539
everything in its path. But we’ve seen that.
01:03:50.539 –> 01:03:53.039
That’s Armageddon. That’s as bad as it gets.
01:03:53.480 –> 01:03:57.739
Burn 1 ,100, 1 ,200 homes in one hour. It’s just,
01:03:57.780 –> 01:04:01.440
that’s crazy that that can happen. And it physically
01:04:01.440 –> 01:04:03.539
happened. But we’re not going to be any different
01:04:03.539 –> 01:04:05.559
than any of that. It’s not going to be shocking
01:04:05.559 –> 01:04:08.760
when the second coming happens. My belief is
01:04:08.760 –> 01:04:10.519
not written in any book. I haven’t written it
01:04:10.519 –> 01:04:12.900
yet. I can write it. I can make the story. You
01:04:12.900 –> 01:04:15.119
can write your beliefs. And you will have followers.
01:04:15.119 –> 01:04:17.000
And on how Christ returns. Yeah, there will be
01:04:17.000 –> 01:04:20.280
people who will believe my words. But as I write
01:04:20.280 –> 01:04:21.579
it, it’s going to be, Christ is going to come.
01:04:21.579 –> 01:04:24.460
It’s going to be obvious. And I’ve never thought,
01:04:24.519 –> 01:04:27.860
my 60 years of life, probably I started thinking
01:04:27.860 –> 01:04:30.780
this 1820. When I was on my mission, I started
01:04:30.780 –> 01:04:36.300
thinking this. 1920. Way back in 1820? 1820 years
01:04:36.300 –> 01:04:41.760
old. Somewhere around there. That it’s going
01:04:41.760 –> 01:04:44.880
to be obvious. And it’s not going to be shocking.
01:04:45.039 –> 01:04:47.139
No one’s going to be surprised when Christ appears.
01:04:47.320 –> 01:04:50.019
When everyone acknowledges him, of course, that’s
01:04:50.019 –> 01:04:52.820
Christ. It’s going to be an of course, naturally.
01:04:53.340 –> 01:04:57.760
It’s going to be just like you’ve delivered me
01:04:57.760 –> 01:05:00.320
my milkshake. You’ve delivered me my Christ.
01:05:00.400 –> 01:05:02.599
Christ is here. I ordered it. It’s right here.
01:05:02.820 –> 01:05:05.460
So there’s no surprise whatsoever when Christ
01:05:05.460 –> 01:05:08.980
returns. It’s going to be commonplace. Commonplace.
01:05:09.139 –> 01:05:10.860
And they’re going to know where he came from.
01:05:11.179 –> 01:05:13.519
Well, everyone’s going to know. That it’s there.
01:05:14.079 –> 01:05:17.079
It’s not going to be like you agree that this
01:05:17.079 –> 01:05:19.320
book exists. You agree that there’s a man there
01:05:19.320 –> 01:05:20.460
that says he’s Christ. And you’re going to agree
01:05:20.460 –> 01:05:24.119
that he’s Christ. But who am I to say? If he
01:05:24.119 –> 01:05:26.699
has to convince you that he’s Christ, then it’s
01:05:26.699 –> 01:05:28.880
not the right way to happen. That’s not the way
01:05:28.880 –> 01:05:30.619
I see it. He’s not going to convince anyone.
01:05:31.079 –> 01:05:33.500
Everyone’s going to automatically. And that may
01:05:33.500 –> 01:05:36.780
be something like. No, you mean if he has to
01:05:36.780 –> 01:05:39.800
convince that he’s the savior of the world, right?
01:05:39.920 –> 01:05:43.539
I mean. I can change my name to Jesus Christ,
01:05:43.800 –> 01:05:48.860
probably. Maybe not in Utah, but probably in
01:05:48.860 –> 01:05:51.619
a neighboring state. I could probably legally
01:05:51.619 –> 01:05:54.039
change my name to Jesus Christ and everyone would
01:05:54.039 –> 01:05:56.920
accept that that’s my name. But if he has to
01:05:56.920 –> 01:05:59.679
convince people that he’s the savior of the world,
01:05:59.760 –> 01:06:05.159
the one that lived in 0 BC or whatever, 0 AD,
01:06:05.320 –> 01:06:09.559
1 AD, yeah, then that’s not the way it goes,
01:06:09.699 –> 01:06:13.369
right? And this is my view only. It doesn’t mean
01:06:13.369 –> 01:06:15.690
anything. It means nothing. And that’s where
01:06:15.690 –> 01:06:18.210
I’m focusing everything on revelation. Everything
01:06:18.210 –> 01:06:22.369
is around you. It’s the you view of everything.
01:06:22.750 –> 01:06:25.389
Your view is your view. My view is my view. But
01:06:25.389 –> 01:06:28.269
I would think if Christ had to convince anyone
01:06:28.269 –> 01:06:32.170
of anything, that’s not Christ. That’s not the
01:06:32.170 –> 01:06:35.630
second coming. That’s not the rapture that’s
01:06:35.630 –> 01:06:37.230
going to occur. And I don’t think there’s any
01:06:37.230 –> 01:06:39.920
fear to it. I don’t think there’s any. No one
01:06:39.920 –> 01:06:42.679
could be afraid, even of the magic that happens
01:06:42.679 –> 01:06:44.219
at that time. Everyone’s going to understand
01:06:44.219 –> 01:06:46.760
the magic. It’s opened. Like the light of Christ
01:06:46.760 –> 01:06:48.920
given to every man, everyone’s light of Christ
01:06:48.920 –> 01:06:51.860
is going to turn on. It’s that conscience. Stephen
01:06:51.860 –> 01:06:53.320
Covey, at the end of his book, talks about it
01:06:53.320 –> 01:06:56.039
as conscience. He says your conscience is basically
01:06:56.039 –> 01:06:58.639
the thing that directs you towards your deepest
01:06:58.639 –> 01:07:01.400
values. Conscience is just going to open up for
01:07:01.400 –> 01:07:03.219
everyone at the same time to the same thing.
01:07:03.360 –> 01:07:07.159
And it’s going to be maybe synergistic, serendipitous.
01:07:07.690 –> 01:07:08.929
but it’s going to happen and everyone’s going
01:07:08.929 –> 01:07:11.010
to know it. That’s the way I see it happening.
01:07:11.090 –> 01:07:14.949
And it’ll be commonplace, not amazing like John
01:07:14.949 –> 01:07:17.389
Pontius wrote or like Visions of Glory. It’s
01:07:17.389 –> 01:07:19.329
not going to be an amazing or tribulation or
01:07:19.329 –> 01:07:22.710
hardship thing. Yeah. Do you think you could
01:07:22.710 –> 01:07:26.690
have that experience, but Spencer in this Visions
01:07:26.690 –> 01:07:28.590
of Glory book could have the experience that
01:07:28.590 –> 01:07:33.440
he’s describing? Yes. I think all that can happen.
01:07:33.860 –> 01:07:35.960
Because we’re talking about God. It’s the vision.
01:07:36.440 –> 01:07:40.159
With God, nothing is impossible. The vision of
01:07:40.159 –> 01:07:41.500
the world from all things from the beginning
01:07:41.500 –> 01:07:45.300
to the end thereof, that was seen by, there’s
01:07:45.300 –> 01:07:47.400
seven or eight people that have done that. The
01:07:47.400 –> 01:07:50.679
brother of Jared, Joseph in Egypt, I think saw
01:07:50.679 –> 01:07:53.800
that. Jacob, Israel, as he wrestled with God.
01:07:53.960 –> 01:07:58.400
I mean, the Old Testament there, Nephi, there’s
01:07:58.400 –> 01:08:00.710
people who have said. I was shown the vision
01:08:00.710 –> 01:08:02.090
of the world from the beginning to the ending
01:08:02.090 –> 01:08:04.969
thereof. And just like that, was it Laurie who
01:08:04.969 –> 01:08:07.849
lived, said in three hours? No, it was Spencer
01:08:07.849 –> 01:08:10.750
that said for three hours, he was, he saw the
01:08:10.750 –> 01:08:12.429
full thing from the beginning to the end. So
01:08:12.429 –> 01:08:15.969
yeah, it’s all individual though. We don’t, we
01:08:15.969 –> 01:08:18.449
don’t know the true church. Definitely. We all
01:08:18.449 –> 01:08:20.590
have faith and you have to choose your faith
01:08:20.590 –> 01:08:23.609
and your faith is informed by the Holy Ghost
01:08:23.609 –> 01:08:26.409
or whatever revelation source you’re receiving
01:08:26.409 –> 01:08:29.979
from. And it, it can be different. You can still
01:08:29.979 –> 01:08:32.680
love everyone that has a different vision and
01:08:32.680 –> 01:08:34.979
a different revelation than you have. And I think
01:08:34.979 –> 01:08:37.720
that’s our role in life. Assuming that they’re
01:08:37.720 –> 01:08:40.479
not coming after you with a gun because some
01:08:40.479 –> 01:08:43.800
revelation they received told them that you have
01:08:43.800 –> 01:08:46.680
to die. And that’s why your gun is faster and
01:08:46.680 –> 01:08:49.880
that’s why you practice with your gun. You prepare,
01:08:50.140 –> 01:08:54.739
preparation. Right. And if you die, so you die
01:08:54.739 –> 01:08:58.399
a little. Because the other side is better than
01:08:58.399 –> 01:09:02.100
this anyway. Perhaps. And that was Socrates’
01:09:02.319 –> 01:09:04.279
statement. We don’t know that the other side
01:09:04.279 –> 01:09:06.399
isn’t better than this, so I’m okay. I’ll drink
01:09:06.399 –> 01:09:09.520
that hemlock and die. And he did, according to
01:09:09.520 –> 01:09:14.779
Plato. [Outro] So I think we’re close to closing. Yeah,
01:09:14.779 –> 01:09:17.859
this worked out. This worked out. I’m glad that
01:09:17.859 –> 01:09:22.279
I had this on my mind. I think it was good. It’s
01:09:22.279 –> 01:09:24.020
good. And I think we did come up with some new
01:09:24.020 –> 01:09:26.340
things. I especially have a new way to interpret
01:09:26.340 –> 01:09:28.100
a scripture that’s been important to me for many
01:09:28.100 –> 01:09:30.819
years that now means something different, which
01:09:30.819 –> 01:09:33.260
I appreciate you for. All because you had a conversation
01:09:33.260 –> 01:09:36.340
with your atheist daughter. Correct. With a daughter
01:09:36.340 –> 01:09:38.140
that was questioning something else than I was
01:09:38.140 –> 01:09:40.399
questioning. But I think that’s a very important
01:09:40.399 –> 01:09:42.800
topic. I mean, we’ll include that in our future
01:09:42.800 –> 01:09:45.619
conversations as well. Yeah, of course. All right.
01:09:45.939 –> 01:09:51.449
Well, thank you for conversing with me. All of
01:09:51.449 –> 01:09:55.750
the listeners that hear this can find us in the
01:09:55.750 –> 01:09:59.170
show notes. You can find at least four ways you
01:09:59.170 –> 01:10:01.949
can contact us, I think. I think there’s at least
01:10:01.949 –> 01:10:04.510
four different ways there, aside from leaving
01:10:04.510 –> 01:10:06.810
a comment on whatever it is that you’re listening
01:10:06.810 –> 01:10:11.170
to us on. So our website is doyouhaveaminutepodcast.com
01:10:11.170 –> 01:10:14.670
and there we’ll… We’ll possibly get around
01:10:14.670 –> 01:10:18.050
to posting our additional thoughts on these conversations
01:10:18.050 –> 01:10:20.689
because we are thinking about all of them still.
01:10:21.090 –> 01:10:24.029
Like what we talked about last week isn’t gone.
01:10:24.189 –> 01:10:28.890
It’s still relevant. It’s still in our lives.
01:10:29.149 –> 01:10:31.810
It’s ingrained in everything we do, which is
01:10:31.810 –> 01:10:34.270
why this is so cool. Thanks for joining us. All
01:10:34.270 –> 01:10:37.050
right. Well, have a good night. All right. See
01:10:37.050 –> 01:10:37.170
you.

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