In which we discover what we think about moochers and other related types of people, and explore how we might keep our families from becoming that type of person.
Recorded September 18, 2024.
Show notes and links:
Definition of Mooching
Les Miserables candlestick scene “I bought your soul”
Donald Trump wealth and trust funds
“The Strangest Secret” Earl Nightingale
The Ants & The Grasshopper
7 Baby Steps, Dave Ramsey
Entreleadership, Dave Ramsey
Christopher Reeves work after injury
The Ultimate Gift (2006), Jim Stovall
Peaky Blinders family meeting
Transcript:
Jump to end
so that kind of gets into it you you
some things you you’re using debt for
and they talk about that’s good debt but
the bad debt Consumer Debt because
you’re living beyond your Mains because
you just need to eat today and my money
ran it’s going to run out this this week
so since my money’s going to run out
this week I have to borrow more money so
I can get to the next paycheck so you
you borrow money and you borrow more and
is that moochi you’re you’re using a
system utilizing a debt system to keep
yourself a blow or there are other
choices available to you would an
independent mature person not take that
consumer
loan hey there this is our podcast do
you have a minute in which my dad and I
dive into deep discussions about both
the most profound and most mundane
questions of Life while we know we don’t
have all the answers probably none of
them actually we are opening our wies to
New Perspectives and most importantly we
are having a good time in conversation
join us as we explore the unknown
together okay I’m ready excellent so you
have a minute I do have a minute all
right oh you know what I always have a
minute I have minutes you
everywhere it doesn’t matter what time
of day it is or what time of night you
have a minute got minutes all right and
one after the other could be hours but
we don’t necessarily have hours but we
always have minutes yeah all right so
that’s why this is convenient um so what
if you stole minutes um what if you
stole minutes like minutes from someone
else can you Can you steal minutes from
someone else H like let me let me steal
a minute of a minute of your time a
minute of your time yeah it it takes the
dedication it takes the agreement of
that person though to allow you to steal
that minute yeah you’re saying let me if
they say if they say no I’m not GNA
steal the minute I’m not gonna allow you
to steal the minute and this is our
topic we’ll get to the topic in a
second maybe a second maybe a
minute if you’re going to steal someone
time they have to agree to it if they
agree to it then it’s an agreement it’s
an agreed theft of time and it really
isn’t stolen AG it’s agreed to so if
it’s agreed to it’s not stolen um even
if you feel like you want to steal it I
want to I want to steal you for for an
hour from whatever else you’re doing but
if you say it’s okay it’s okay with you
it’s okay with both of you then it’s an
agreement so an agreement is different
than a a theft and and the purpose the
topic today is uh is what’s it called
mooching
mooching which did you look up the
definition of mooching technically it’s
obtaining something you didn’t pay for
or begging or or stealing begging or
stealing something you didn’t pay for so
if I’m not going to pay for your time
I’m going to ask for it they you have a
minute yes that’s an agreement then it’s
not mooching it’s mooching if I didn’t
pay for it if I gain your agreement but
that’s not in the definition the
definition says that you didn’t pay for
yeah I wonder if you can’t exactly
translate mooching to stealing someone’s
time mooch is off of others so like
maybe if I imagine if if you were
mooching someone’s time you’d be like
always asking them to do stuff for you
of pain in the neck yeah maybe I can’t
hang out with them because they’re
always and they always talk too much
just deal all my time um the other
definition of mooching is is uh what
like lingering around lingering to
linger uh which I don’t I’ve never heard
it used in that respect like sluming but
sluming yeah
sluming just doing nothing just hanging
around okay um so I’ve not I’ve not
heard that I haven’t heard that either
used that way but in the dictionary as a
reason as a reason definition of
mooching that kind of makes sense though
is is if you’re just going to linger
there you’re kind of stealing the time
of whatever you’re wasting your time
stealing your time by doing nothing yeah
so what was the other the other
definition then is to get things from
Another or live off the generosity of
others without providing any return
payment or benefit okay right
okay so with a conversation it’s
um if if you get agreement from the
person even if you’re stealing let’s say
you go in and you obtain their uh their
gold and silver or their
Lam say you obtain their silver from
their drawer and you you get caught by
the sheriff and they take you back and
you mooch that but then he says oh you
you forgot the candlesticks I wanted to
give you these too puts them in the bag
so you recall that that statement from
the movie I haven’t read the book but
yes from the movie and from the from the
book as well I mean he comes back in
come the sheriff brings him in and says
I believe he stole from you John vjn The
Prisoner and he’s stealing he says No I
gave him those things and you forgot to
take the candlesticks so he he stopped
the mooching by reacting to it in a
different manner well it was still
mooching because Jean valan didn’t give
him back anything there was no
return okay I don’t
know
charity did it it turned from moing to
charitable at that point yeah can
something be charitable and also
mooching at the same time that’s that’s
the first question is what’s the
difference what’s the difference in what
delineates charity from mooching and
mooching from charity or are they the
same thing so that’s what we need to
discuss and and John vj’s action with I
forgot what the the priest name was but
whatever the the priest gave him and he
said I I’m going to change this you you
didn’t steal from me you weren’t
mooching off of me because I gave that
to you and and I sent you out and you
didn’t take the candlesticks I thought
you were going to take these as well so
and then he whispers to him I’ve bought
you I bought you now live your life live
your life
appropriately he he said I’ve just
bought your life back by giving you
these
things so that was what the priest gave
him that gift so it’s a gift it’s
charity he didn’t give it to him as
Charity gave it to him as a gift because
he said this is the gift I give to you
I’m giving your life back now live it
appropriately from this point forward
yeah and John bjan did he changed his
whole life changed his old Outlook even
though he ended up still being hounded
the rest of his life so feels like to me
that charity has a kind of a a good
connotation like it’s I mean but there’s
charity cases too like if someone’s
talking about a charity case that means
they just can’t they can’t make do
themselves they always have to beg off
of other people or not maybe not beg
they’re just always there looking
looking like they need help and so
people are always helping them so is
there a is there possibility of being a
mucher and a charity or charity case is
a charity case a mucher receiving
charity as a
mucher um I think that is that’s the
case that most often that’s the case
yeah I believe so charity is not
different from mooching and you can’t
turn mooching into not mooching just by
giving freely because I think a lot of
people who are mooching off of someone
else um is receiving that stuff freely
it’s not like they’re Ste steing they’re
not stealing money from their parents
their parents are like yeah here this is
I’ll give you money because I care about
you and the kids are just not doing
anything to repay it you know to repay
it or to gain independence or to gain
stability on their own yeah they’re
happy to be Award of the family yeah
still a trust fund baby and let’s say
the trust fund is a multi-million
million dollar trust fund and the child
just doesn’t grow up and wants to just
be the trust fund baby and is allowed to
do that they’re they’re mooching up
their parents so that that’s that still
matches that still matches the
definition even though they because it’s
not their money right so examples of
that I you I don’t know any real trust
fund babies I don’t know if who they are
but Trump Donald Trump we had talk about
the politics that’s in front of us he
was given a million dollars to start out
his career and I don’t believe he went
back I think that’s in his books
somewhere where he talks about that’s
what I had to start and I started built
it from there so he became a self-made
man on that first million dollar
infusion yeah it wasn’t that he failed
20 times whatever he might have failed
at times but he he picked it back up and
he he made things work he didn’t ask for
more outside of that million yeah and he
didn’t stay on his dad’s coattails his
whole life he went off and did his own
thing quite young he just he got
independent surpassed his father very
quickly um and that’s what kids are
supposed to do I think yeah you know
they get a they get a an inheritance or
a a be equipment of the of the Family
Trust and instead of just being a trust
fun baby and mooching on it for the rest
of your life they took that and built
something else built it
now chances are when his dad passed away
all that added to his fortunes as well
inheritance because inheritance is still
occur and they happen when someone
passes on someone has to care for it and
someone has to be prepared to care for
it right you know that’s that’s the
story of uh The Ultimate Gift The
Ultimate Gift with Jim stoval and you
fully understand that story you know
that story I am um it’s a movie I am no
I’ve seen it so you’re saying it’s a
movie and now I’m remembering that I’ve
seen it uh yeah right and Jason I think
Jason’s his name the the son the
grandson of red um was was just a trust
fun baby he was off spending $25,000 A
Night in Paris and you know spending all
of his parents money right and just
being a no no good lowlife thrust fun
baby didn’t even want to go to the
funeral showed up on the outside so the
whole story is how bad a person he was
how much of a mucher he was and a
useless individual and then these
through the attorney and through the
will he went through a number of
challenges to gain the trust of of the
attorney and of the estate in order to
qualify to ad manage right and they were
like literal challenges like do this and
he went and did it and then next next
thing do this right yeah and he had to
go and learn how to work yeah work hard
so build this fence all right and he
tried to build the fence and he couldn’t
do it very well but he worked all day
and all day and then they ripped the
fence out because he didn’t do a good
enough job and started them over again
yeah so is this a you have to learn Bas
off of a book yeah Jim stoval wrote
wrote the do okay it was so and it was
to teach these Concepts don’t be a
mucher don’t be a trust fun baby go
through these steps and I think there
are 12 there were 12 things that he had
to accomplish and in that you’re
building a life you’re building
stability You’re Building strength on
your own independence as opposed to
being dependent so a mucher is a
dependent would that be right mucher is
dependent on other people yeah I think
that fits so and and it’s appropriate to
a point when you’re maturing when you’re
immature an immature person is going to
be a moocher yeah my kids are mooching
off of me all the time I to feed them I
have to do their they don’t have any
other
choice and if they if they took the
other choice we talked about that if
they said I want to be uh what is it
called when they leave the home
emancipation um emancipated I want to be
emancipated I want to do my own thing
then they’re they’re claiming that I
guess claiming that they’re no longer a
moocher off of yeah they no longer want
to be that yeah so there’s appropriate
ways to build that to get out of that
Ling attitude yeah and I think uh a lot
of people stay in
relationships like whether they’re um
young adults or married to someone that
they don’t like so much but but um they
you know that these people just don’t
want to put forth the effort that it
would take to become independent and so
they stay in the relationship and stay I
guess in in that mooching role stay
dependent so a stay-at-home mom without
kids without
kids I don’t
know yeah I suppose you could uh like
black and white you could say a
stay-at-home mom with no kids if she’s
got no other way to bring in like to win
the bread I guess maybe let’s say she
doesn’t need to be a breadwinner say the
family is making doing well enough the
husband’s operating it I mean
okay let’s use Donald Trump again okay
um what’s his wife’s name
Melania Melania melan Mia Melania she
used to work but she’s not working she
hasn’t had to and her kids are raised
but she’s still well she’s writing a
book she’s written a book it’s going to
be published Bo um so I guess she is
she’s working but she doesn’t have to
and if she doesn’t have to and she
chooses not to if she’s just the first
lady of the United States is that
mooching is that a mooching position and
she just lays back and and eats Bon
bonss and watches soap operas watches
soap operas right there in the White
House let’s say that’s what she does is
that a valid existence do you
think well
sure I means she’s alive at least she’s
alive yeah valid
meaning well and we talked about that
it’s not a productive life it’s boring
you would more quickly die when you do
just nothing like that yeah I think
that’s why she wrote the book I think
that’s why she’s she’s always doing
stuff anyway and everyone will because
you get bored I think everyone will yeah
even once your kids move out of the
house and your empty nesters whoever it
is you’re G to find something to do and
productive something productive that you
can feel if it’s even just quilting or
crocheting or you’ll find something
right if you’re if you’re not a mucher
at heart right okay let’s say you are a
let’s say that you’re a uh and the other
people are the the welfare mods well for
a mom you have kids because they’re
going to pay you extra to have another
kid another child you get a higher child
tax credit which just increases your
income and then you’re receiving the
wick money payments and you get welfare
because you’re not working or disability
even because you’ve convinced them that
you’ve got challenges you can’t work so
all that income are those people
mures yes I mean my gut feeling says yes
what do you think okay and can you prove
it can you prove that they are muchard
you um maybe even with just the
definition um so the definition if if
they’re receiving let me see they’re
getting things from another are living
off the generosity of others without
providing any return payment or benefit
yeah so the black white definition that
they’d be muchers I think a welfare
recipient in this country is a mucher
because they’re not providing anything
back yeah they’re not even providing
back to the economy they’re they’re
buying their food but just as much as
they need to they might provide back to
the truck dealers whatever they are
providing a little bit back by being a
consumer still being a consumer in the
Market but that’s not really providing
anything back I think if I was in that
position where I couldn’t I couldn’t
provide anything
back and I had to live as a ward of the
state um how would I feel about being
labeled a
mucher like I think well probably about
as good as You’ feel about being a ward
of the state well right being called a
ward of the state well is Ward of the
state have a negative just as as
negative as mucher I mean like I think I
didn’t I don’t have I don’t have a
negative feeling about that I
guess maybe I should maybe I should have
a well and that’s you talk about people
that want to have Medicare Medicaid
Medicaid pay for their long-term care
needs I mean that’s a valid plan people
plan on that let’s spend down all of our
assets so that when I go into a nursing
home when I’m 85 years old and my last
years I’m going to let the state pay for
my
Healthcare so help me spend my money
let’s go on a cruise and let’s do all
this stuff when I’m 60 65 so I turn you
know 85 80 and I feel like going into
the nursing home I’ll spend out all my
money and then let the award of the
state for the final years of my life and
my kids can visit me every day all day
long but they’re not getting no
inheritance I’m not going to try to keep
my inheritance but I want to go and just
relax and retire to a nursing home yeah
but that’s Award of the state that is a
moocher the the plan is to mooch off of
the government for your final year right
uh the plan of a welfare recipient there
someone who says uh unemployment
benefits 26 weeks or whatever it it
really is but they extended it I don’t
know how long you can claim unemployment
but they’re happy to get fired from
their job and go claim unemployment and
they’ll be on that until the benefits
run out before they start working
looking for seriously looking for the
jobs it’s part of the program that
they’re supposed to be looking for jobs
but if they’re making enough money on
unemployment welfare benefits that they
don’t have to work they don’t they
choose not to and that’s the mooching
attitude right as opposed to someone who
what’s the other person going to do who
wants to be independent and provide for
their own yeah if you want to provide
for their own and you want to live not
as a lucher you’re going to get a job
tomorrow you’re going to start flipping
burgers instead of accept the
unemployment check you don’t want to
accept government welfare because you
don’t want to be Award of the state
because there is a state by of that what
if you have physical impairments that
keep you from doing most anything and
like you can’t you can’t drive a car
anywhere like you have to take the um
you have to take the bus the wheelchair
bus and you can’t sit at your work job
you can’t work sit at a job even and ly
line you you can’t stand that long you
can’t sit that long I mean there might
be I mean there’s dir certainly
definitely I said dirly because that’s
definitely and certainly together I
always do that dirt you
got there’s there’s definitely and
certainly jobs that you can do that you
don’t have to um stand you don’t have to
move your arms even you don’t have to go
anywhere you don’t have to sit for hours
you can you can do that but the problem
is those jobs usually have some sort of
training or education that you have to
get before you can do it and it’s
possible and how do you pay for that if
you can’t work in the first place it’s
also possible you could be a t scammer
and they’ll pay you to just get on the
phone with people whether you really
know how to read the script or not tell
a scammer like legitimately scamming or
just like sales calls well there are
those well it could be sales calls could
be legitimate that you’re just working
for the for the jacuzzi company and
trying to get people to talk yeah um a
sales for sales position the sales
positions don’t require college degrees
they don’t require anything except how
to read a script and how to have enough
dedication to be there long enough to be
able to get into a model
right of communication with the people
you’re talking to right and and my my
difficulty with that would be the ethics
of being a
salesperson or cold calling people like
which one is worse having to having to
cold call and annoy people with
something that they never wanted in the
first place or live off state which
holds a higher stigma which holds a
higher stigma yeah well it’s not NE well
yeah stigma to me like it’s a it’s a
personal decision so that’s why in the
first place I use the word scam if you
are just going to be there to bother
people then you’re not you’re not you’re
not providing a service and they’re
willing to pay you for it they’re
willing to pay you for it because what
you’re doing your if your goal is just
to get one more bit of information out
of them so they can sell your list again
to someone else they can confirm yes he
answered the phone with this name and
that’s his number and he gave me his
email address so you get extra bonuses
for gaining other data for the list so
you can sell a valid list to the next
person yeah so those list Sellers and I
believe there’s people out there that do
that they have to they’re just calling
to confirm conf someone actually answer
the phone and this is who they are they
confirm this is who they are this they
gave me this other bit of information
yes and you keep them talking see how
much they’re going to give you how much
can I get out of you because stronger
list costs more so that’s still require
dedication a mucher isn’t going to spend
enough time to dedicate to learn that
task of talking to people yeah not even
that task right yeah and a sales task is
hard it’s difficult I mean car salesman
the good car salesman aren’t pushy the
the people who are trying to learn are
pushy because they’re trying to learn
okay but the professionals have their
clientele they’ve been selling for years
they they’ve developed the the ability
to
benefit the people that are coming
asking questions about cars and they’re
not they’re not pushy with it there’s
some people in the financial markets
that are very pushy and very you know
you you’ve got to they have to make
money right B right now today and if
you’re not the person then I’m going to
disqualify and stop talking to you and
move on to someone else so those calls
those people there’s a there’s a place
for that Boiler Room Boiler Room type
information so if you’re if you’re
selling something and you need to get a
quick sale or a quick disqualification
just move on to the next call um that’s
not really what we’re talking about
we’re talking about the mooching concept
the person that no person is going to go
into a boiler room or a phone call there
if they’re a moocher what they’re going
to do is they’re going to want to sit on
their in their couch on at their house
watch the the soap poers whether they
have bon bonss to eat or
not maybe they’re just eating buritos
because that’s all can afford they can
afford the chocolates yeah um they’re
happy eating Fritos watching the TV um
and they get involved in a the
requirement the requirement well to
qualify for that you have to prove that
that you’re incapable of doing anything
else yeah and sometimes that’s really
easy to prove because you’ve been that
way your whole life and so the people
you’re mooching off of are the people
that feel responsible for you from the
start other people so do you have to
prove to the first person how do you
prove to the first person that you mooch
from that you deserve that mooching that
that’s your role my role in life is to
be a a charity case and I need I need
help yeah that would begin because that
would began at Birth be really easy I
think at
Birth there’s a there’s got to be a
turning point there there’s a point
they’re unconscious not conscious about
what they’re doing they’re just in
instinctively receiving everything
because they can’t do it on their own as
soon as they start walking and picking
things up they can select to eat this or
not eat this so at some point they
choose I don’t like this responsibility
of getting my own food I’d rather just
sit here at the table and not eat until
they put food on my plate that’s that’s
a little close to home I used to do that
you you were a moocher I was a moocher
at the table even in the family and the
and all of my siblings do it my parents
knew it and I wouldn’t ask for food I
would just sit there and not eat and
until they put something on my plate and
then I would eat it yeah were you and so
that’s what was that a decision you made
or were you trained into doing that it
was something I grew into yeah no I
didn’t I don’t know that I consciously
said I’m not going to do that but um
that was when I got married
my wife learned that my girlfriend at
the time went to dinner with us and she
said uh he said why why why are you just
doing that why are you giving him this
stuff said well and so this my siblings
said well if we don’t feed him he won’t
eat well if you don’t put it on his
plate he’s not going to ask for it he’s
not going to get it he’s not even going
to get it and she said that’s just
that’s immature you know and clearly
it’s immature so a mure is immature
someone who’s not and I was what I was
21 years old uhuh I’d been off on my own
in college for quite a while and I still
went home and they still had that
feeling and I still fell into that that
process of letting them put food on my
plate and I’ll eat it I was busy doing
other things I had a girlfriend I mean
what else am I going to do I don’t need
to eat don’t need to get my
food so and maybe I thought it was a a
status symbol that watch what’s going to
happen I’m going to sit it this quick
table I’ve got so much power my place
just going to get filled with
stuff maybe mucher skill they have power
they don’t have to work for what they
get and I think many welfare recipients
kind of feel that way or even disability
recipients they get their 3,000 a month
or 2500 a month that’s coming to them
for their disability their living wage
their
income without having to do anything for
it so they enjoy that and they think
it’s status symbol
as opposed to a stigma against them
maybe um I wonder if the like it’s
difficult to break out of like mentally
break out of being a mure or unware or
like if you’re in there then you have a
difficult time thinking how you can be
thinking different any other way any
other way yeah you you are what you
think about was ear n Gill Strangest
Secret if you think about that this a
status symbol for me to not have to work
for my money the grasshopper and the
Ants the ants have to work they’re all
out working the grasshopper says what
are you working for food straight it’s
all here yeah so to break that stat and
that’s what Dave Ry talks about with his
uh you know de free mentality you can’t
get to a de pre mentality just by
thinking it it it takes a psychological
change and you can’t just follow the
steps check the boxes check all these
boxes and you’ll be there if you checked
all the boxes and you didn’t change your
M mental state psychology the psychology
of debt Freedom right if you don’t have
that psychology you’re going to drop
right back into debt because soon as you
get to the next table it’s gonna come
back up again that’s what you’ll do yeah
it’s automatic you you’ll always think
what you’ve always thought so you have
to change that that has to change so we
do all start out as muchers as children
how do we change to being independent
how do we decide to leave the house
leave father and mother and become
independent would there be evidence in
history of people wanting Independence
and wanting
responsibility um in Psychology maybe
something that that I don’t know Sigman
Freud or or or you know other people
like maybe they would say kids once they
reach a certain age they want to break
away and start being in charge and maybe
it’s a personality thing like maybe only
only type four people do that and type
two people are always always trying as
much as they can to skirt responsibility
and and mooch off of others I don’t know
I don’t even know what type four people
are I don’t know that it’s a
personality yeah it’s not
I don’t think it’s a personality type I
think it’s maturity though as you gain
maturity you lose the mooching tendency
so I I I would put it on the maturity
scale okay and some people just don’t
gain and they don’t want to gain
maturity that’s responsibility in
maturity you’re taking responsibility
and you’re living your life with purpose
and you know I think the psychologist
state that if you don’t have a purpose
in life then you’re you’re miserable
that’s a miser miserable life yeah um if
you’re just interested in everyone
giving you what you need and you’re well
self-centered self-centered and not not
living with a purpose and external from
yourself that’s that’s misery misery um
and people can live in it and that’s why
you watch the soap opers your whole life
is those other people’s stories and your
my 600 pound life you’re just 600 pound
sitting in the bed or in your chair and
you never move so kids normally break
out of that because they want to be
mature they want to to say I can do this
I I can accomplish something this sense
of accomplishment yeah so it’s into
people’s lives it
happens uh it happens instinctually for
some people or for most people maybe
some people it doesn’t happen and you
you move to the word instinctual that
means it’s evident in the animal kingdom
as well just as quickly just as eily
yeah
so instinct is animals operate just on
Instinct they don’t have this
Consciousness or the you know the
determination to be independent but they
gain independence right any child animal
a cub or a colt a calf they all break
away they don’t have to be weaned they
don’t have to be brought taken away from
their mother they will leave their
mother just there’s a time for that and
they’ll pick it they’ll do it and the
mother will be fine with it they’ll both
separate from each other everyone will
be be fine yeah because they mat them
early yeah they matured to that point
and so if you decide to wean a calf
early you can wean the calf hry and and
just feed him for a short period of time
until there’s enough till he learns how
to eat on his own get immature to the
point of eating out his own and he’s
fine you you just let him out in the
pasture uhu and he never thinks of his
mother again or that mooching idea that
all of my food’s going to come from that
cow now all his food he’s hun for it and
searching for it and at 3 months old he
can be fully independent where you can
if you just leave him with them it’ll be
about a year sometime between six months
and a year they’ll they’ll separate
automatically yeah or
instinctually and that’s just because
it’s based on Instinct evolutionary I do
uh maybe it’s Evolution yeah like it’s
it’s part of the what is the word um
better it’s it’s
better as far as progress goes as far as
living goes it’s better to be
independent you live longer if you’re
independent I mean like wait a minute
though like there’s some animals that
live in packs because it increases
longevity so I don’t know yeah but
they’re not dependent they’re
independent in that pack they’re
choosing to be part of that group okay
The Oxen that fight hail to tail against
the the cheetahs or whatever’s you know
the circle of Oxon circle of Buffalo
they’ll they’ll all face out with their
horns to fight something that’s
threatening okay I had heard that
someone El someone just talked about
that just the other day that I was
listening to but so so they work as a
group but they’re independent in that
group that’s interdependence
interdependent working as a group you
choose the groups you’re part of and the
groups you’re going to work with like
your employment situations you can
choose that work or you can choose to be
a lucher and just receive the gift the
charity from from the church or the food
pantry or the government and you’re just
receiving that and that’s what you’re
living on yeah and is it a good thing so
I think you asked that is that is it
beneficial is it appropriate for someone
to be on
disability and be happy with it um I
think some people maybe
imagine if they’re on disability and
that frees them up to spend a lot of
time doing things that they love to do
then that could make them feel like it’s
very beneficial for them that makes it
subjective right yeah it depends on the
on the person the individual still an
individual concept yes so individually
we get to select whether we are mooching
or we are independent and as a disabled
person I may not be able to do a number
of things but I’m going to do everything
I can you I’m in a wheelchair and I only
have one leg and so I can’t even stand
up but I don’t know Chris trer Reeds the
quadriplegic you know and you get to
that point you you had a very active
life and then all of a sudden you can do
nothing um I don’t know if he ever went
on welfare he was rich the time yeah
maybe he couldn’t qualify then he was
hurt maybe may maybe he never needed to
and if you and that’s what I mean about
financial planning even people with
money with millions of dollars will try
to spend it all out so that Medicare can
pay their final 10 years but that’s a
mooching attitude that’s why would you
do that why wouldn’t you just
judiciously work your money or buy the
insurance policies that allow you to
live those 10 years and provide for your
own so that’s a that’s an individual
choice that is yeah individual choice to
set up your plan so that it works for
you for the long term and that’s kind of
what Dave Ramsey’s talking about and
that’s what he promotes he doesn’t
promote go on to Medicaid doesn’t say
let the be Award of the state don’t let
other people pay for your life work your
life so that you can pay your own way
all the way until you pass away and then
even have money to hand down to your
heirs yeah you have to believe that
that’s um a better way to want to do
that
uh you have to have that philosophy so
it’s a change of philosophy right
changing from a mucher to an independent
thinker needs to be a philosophical
change so um did we talk all about
enough about that enough about the
psychology of it what are the questions
still exist in regard to your choice so
I propose you choose to be a mure or you
choose to be independent and that’s the
philosophical choice that you make each
individual makes it themselves yeah yeah
questions about that and uh I mean I
think I agree that that that’s true it’s
a choice and I think for some people the
choice is made easier by the ability of
other people to give to them um it would
be let’s see do I have the
capability um the capability do I have
the means do I have the resources to be
a mucher it requires resources it
requires someone to have there has to be
a pool of money or a load of money be
somewhere someone you know can give it
to you I think my parents are rich
they’ve always been rich and so I’m just
going to be taking from them my whole
life yeah well that’s a choice but like
I’m talking about me specifically if I
decided that I wanted to be a moocher if
me and my husband both decided that we
wanted to be muchers because okay uh I
think it would if I was going to end up
like that then it it it would be both of
it would have to be both of us you’d
have to do it together yeah um because
that’s a presupposed choice that you
made you’re together yes together we’re
going to do it um I believe that my
parents and his parents uh you and Mom
and also his parents have the means to
help us live Even in our current
standard maybe even I think you have the
means but I don’t believe that you would
allow it and so I don’t think that I
could beg off of you okay um so I at
that first level I would not be able to
become a moocher um even if I really
wanted it maybe not this year maybe not
this year let’s say this year that
doesn’t work okay but let’s let’s go 10
years down the road say 10 years down
the road um let’s say your parents
become multi-millionaires and they have
20 or $30 million in their bank because
their business just took off and they
did this and that and she started
something else and now there’s millions
of dollars coming in every year and
there’s a $20 million trust fund there
and let’s say that that your husband’s
parents
um and I don’t know something happened
there that uh the dad passed away and
left a $1.5 million Fortune to the mom
and so she’s there alone and she doesn’t
have anything else to do with her money
and she just wants to give it to the
kids she wants to support her her kids m
so if the if the prospect was there that
there’s enough money and they would like
to would you would you have you’d have
the opportunity what would it take for
you to actually ask and become that
person I would have to think differently
about what I want to do with my life I
think I mean right now even I I work a
part-time job and I teach music lessons
and I don’t have to our budget covers
everything but those are like I want to
work working a physical job keeps my
body moving and I feel good when I do it
I feel good when I’m around those people
um right it’s fun and accomplish you
know yeah even though you’re only
accomplishing cleaning toilets even
though that’s the only thing I’m doing
um yeah it’s still an accomplishment it
it feels like I’m I’m useful like
someone has to clean the toilets and it
can be me yeah and I I don’t mind it and
I actually enjoy it I enjoy what I do um
and it does help with our our getting
out of debt goal even though it’s not
necessary it does help get it it moves
us closer to that so you could you could
be I mean right now regardless of
talking about your parents with your
husband’s income you could be a complete
military right now you don’t have to
work yeah you can accomplish everything
you you’ll be out of debt and maybe
you’ll be out of debt six month months
sooner if you work as opposed to not
working and so that six months isn’t
that big deal right that’s going to it’s
going to pan out you you could be a
mucher now but you’re choosing not to be
right and that’s that’s the choice we’re
talking about that’s the that’s the
choice the philosophy it’s the mentality
I don’t think that someone like you the
way you’ve described all that you
couldn’t step back and be a mucher you
can’t no you won’t you won’t have the
chance you can’t change your mindset
from a and maybe once you get to the
growth mindset that growth mindset the
independent mindset you can’t go back to
the dependent luch your status unless
you’re forced into that do you think
it’s and even impossible for my mind to
be changed back to to go back yes okay I
believe it would be because even
Christopher re I and I don’t know the
story but I bet if we searched into it
and sought his life and what he did I
don’t think he became a m i don’t think
he became a war of the state I think he
readjusted his income so that it would
last his whole life yeah and provide his
needs continuously and his kids were
happy with that we’re fine with that so
yes and maybe they help them but is that
is that mooching if your kids are
helping you is that a mooching position
or if you’re receiving charity and
you’re doing all that you can you’re in
a position that you’re locked up you
can’t actually work and he actually he
did movies after he was quadriplegic too
he still B things yeah and he was wanted
he he was he’s still Christopher Reed
right they still wanted him he was a a
public speaker he probably made $10,000
every time he went to an event to speak
with whatever he could say I don’t know
he he was able to speak so yeah I’m I’m
sure he made money after after that
accident yeah so what’s the other yeah I
don’t think you can go back you have
Tove you have to move forward the
progress Eternal progression or
continual prog progress and the receding
the receding Horizon of perfection I
mean you’re always going to be seeing
that if you’re of a mindset and a growth
mindset you’re always going to be
looking to the next thing there’s always
an advancement and you’re not going to
be happy going backwards right to the
moing mentality right you know that’s
kind of a that opens up a fear of mine a
fear of suddenly being incapable of
doing things um What if I go blind
someday like I kind of feel like I want
to prepare but I I mean that would be
almost a waste of time because I’m
probably not going to go blind someday
maybe I will yeah I don’t know but like
do I do I learn Braille just in case or
what if I’m deaf like what if I go deaf
and I can’t listen to podcasts or Audi
books um and I can’t hear my kids
calling me uh you know that that cuts
off like half of the things that I do in
my life if I can’t even hear it you know
and those two things you you mentioned
yeah you know Jim stoval do you know his
his his ability no he he is legally daa
and legally blind is he really but he’s
he’s written 25 books or something 20 in
the 20s he’s written books and he he
dictates them uh he can’t type he can’t
you know I can’t see what he’s doing but
he he’s of the mentality that he’s not
going to be Award of the state he’s not
just going to sit there so he’s done
more than than most people as a death
blind person yeah yeah my life would
just change completely though I mean I
would still I would find a way to work I
would find a way to do yeah things I
just would have to shift not shift gears
I would have to what I’d have to get a
whole new
car yeah but anyway the most interested
thing about Jim he he’s completely
active and he puts it he puts his phone
number in his books his office is
available to Anyone who reads his books
and he answers the
phone that’s the the oddest thing about
I called him once you talk to Jim I had
a question I talk talk to Jim snowall
and he talked to me for 10 15 minutes
and he wasn’t trying to push me off the
phone saying you know you’re just an
idiot kid in Utah what am I talking to
you for said he said what are you
working on and I’m happy to happy to
help you what can I help you with so
he’s he uses his time generously it’s
like step seven of the of Ramsey program
give back whenever you get everything
give back generously of your time of
your resources of what you need yeah and
I don’t know that I was mooching up him
and he’s clearly outside of my realm of
people that t to but I you know I read
uh millionaire map the millionaire map
book got to the end of it he says you’re
making these plans and uh here’s my
phone number in case you have any other
questions or would like to let me know
what your plans are I think that might
have been what I called them for um I
said I had an idea we’re g to talk to
them which is partly why I’m talking to
you about this mooching right now
because you have an idea yeah well I’ve
had an idea right and we’ve operated
with it oh and and so in that operation
I must know what it is you must know
what it is um but it’s a mooching idea
is a does a bank operate because of the
mooching attitude of people H well like
I was saying maybe someone who has a
disability can find a job that would pay
them enough to to to cover their living
expenses um but in order to get that job
in order to find a job that they’re even
happy in like maybe maybe there’s a lot
of considerations that it has has to pay
enough to pay for where I’m living and
and cover my food and stuff and and also
I have to enjoy the work and so but but
to qualify for this job I need to have
certain education and certificates and
those cost money like I can’t get the
education for free so if you get if you
do get offered the education for free
because that’s what the government’s
talking about too let’s give everyone a
college education for free yeah avoid
all student loans let pay off all the
student loans and make education up to a
16 up to a bachelor’s degree public
education so if if that’s the case and
you can get the education pring are you
mooching because of that I mean do our
kids mooch by going to K through 12 for
free H and to take the the breakfast and
lunch that’s provided to them at school
for free is that mooching and from a
homeschool mentality yes it is
yeah why would you lock yourself into
that socialist program and and be a part
of that prison system to learn to you
know eat when they tell you to eat and
when the bell rings you move from one
job to the next so so learn on that
conveyor belt why would you join the
conveyor
belt the the banking question though
right Banks Banks um offer loans and you
pay them back with interest so that’s
not mooching because because you’re
paying back you’ve got a return of the
payment or the benefit and you need that
sometimes is it possible not to pay them
back yeah I think it is you can you can
default on your loan yeah yeah and and
you can declare bankruptcy and uh you
can right and then if you declare
bankruptcy appropriately and the judge
agrees you know you got the law behind
you you borrowed $150,000 and you paid
nothing back
right so if you’re
going have the the Ming philosophy the
mentality and the and that’s just who
you are in the rest of your life then
going to a bank for a loan with no
intent to pay it back or even in intent
to pay it back but your philosophy
hasn’t changed and so you end up not
paying it back because right yeah you
never believed in that anyway so
bankruptcy is an option for you yeah if
bankruptcy is an option and in the worst
case things you know life happens to you
and you get to that point you’re going
to file bankruptcy because that’s the
option that’s really the only thing I
can do but if you’re of a mentality
that’s growth and and income oriented
and independent oriented you say there’s
no way I’m ever going to file bankruptcy
I’m going to get the third and fourth
job and the fifth job I’m going to work
whatever I’m going to sell everything
yeah we we’re going to have or every
person in the household’s going to have
to be jobs right you or two at least so
that we can not have to file bankrupcy
because that’s not an option for me I
don’t have that mentality yeah the other
thing and the the description I use for
debt is if you’re if you’re stuck in a
point that you’re living beyond your
means then debt is where you go to
that’s the only reason you would take
debt because you want to buy something
that you can’t afford yet that you can’t
pay for so you step debt on a house
because most people won’t save up 500 or
700,000 to buy a house for cash that
would be don’t have that ability that
would be a very difficult thing at most
um standards of living to do that right
yeah because you’re you have to pay rent
you have to live somewhere anyway and
most people aren’t willing to live with
their parents for the first 30 years of
their marriage 30 years because that’s
how long it takes four
kids and build up the money so that now
I can buy the house because I’ve got the
cash I saved up the cash for it and in
the meantime what do you do with that
cash so that is that mooching are people
mooching off you for for that cash um so
that kind of gets into it you you some
things you you’re using debt for and
they talk about that’s good debt but the
bad debt Consumer Debt because you’re
living beyond your meanss because you
just need to eat today um and my money
ran is going to run out this this week
so since my money is going to run out
this week I have to borrow more money so
I can get to the next paycheck uhuh so
you you borrow money and you borrow more
yeah and is that mooching you’re you’re
using a system utilizing a debt system
to keep yourself afloat or there are
other choices available to you would an
independent mature person not take that
consumer loan you know I think some
people would say that um it’s a tool
that you can utilize even if you’re
mature and
independent um you can use debt to your
advantage to your you know fin your
financial advantage you you build your
wealth by using debt that mathematically
it works out yeah you can make the math
make sense if the math makes sense then
why not do it why not use it yeah I mean
out of principle out of principle that’d
be the only reason you don’t use it like
I just don’t I don’t own credit cards I
take out loans I pay for everything with
cash right there’s the other thing and
and that’s kind of the idea of moosing
is your you’re obtaining something
without paying for it right and whether
you you take a debt you take on a debt
or you borrow money you’re not paying
for that money until you start making
the payments then you’re paying for
you’re paying for it over time you’re
paying for it down the road but you’re
not paying for it right now if you spend
cash on it and you save up the money
then you you you’re paying for it you
connect you collect it enough that you
can make a trade for that item that
you’re getting if you use debt to get
that item even if it’s just paying for
your food if you get a consumer loan and
you’re buying your food you’re buying
consumables because you need to live for
the next two weeks before you get paid
again you’re not you’re not paying for
that right as you pick up the food so
that’s the mo that’s what makes it
mooching it’s mooching if if you’re
living beyond your means your means
aren’t sufficient to meet so what your
expenses are like if I use an Amazon
credit card to buy something on Amazon
and then I don’t have to pay that card
off like I’m not paying for that actual
item on my statement until a month and a
half in the future am I a mucher like
all the time I’m just constantly a
moocher a strict definition yes yes but
a strict definition you you received the
stuff from Amazon they mailed it to you
they got it to your house and you’re not
going to give them that that fund until
they tell you yeah your 30 days are up
now so 30 days from the statement date
right so 45 days after you made the
purchase then you can get it to be 59
days 61 days and then I pay for it and
then I’m not a mocher for that item
anymore because I paid for it but for
everything that I purchased in between
then and now I am a mucher it’s like can
I can I steal a minute yeah that that
minute is stolen I mean you were a
mucher for that 60 days that 60-day time
frame if you had died and the debt was
forgiven so the debt at Amazon is a
Consumer Debt it’s not secured by any
collateral right so let’s say you died
at day two and you weren’t going to pay
it for 60 days the the legality is that
that Consumer Debt disappears when you
die so no one pays that back yeah um
that’s part of the joke from the legal
profession bounce your last check write
a big check your last check and bounce
it no one gets that money the money you
just got to got to use it so you did
mooch your last 60 days you died right
there right you get to the 60 days and
you pay it off then you’ve solved you
resolved that muching you paid off the
debt but it’s still a debt that you paid
off it’s an obligation right other
person up other people’s money and
that’s what they talk about if you’re
running a business you want to use other
people’s money as often possible so that
you don’t have to bootstrap put your own
money in the business and that’s all you
all you do but I’m not sure that that’s
a good idea we’re kind of talking this
through to see if we can find something
there so the options of not
borrowing um so paying paying for things
with cash saving up doing without maybe
maybe You’ never needed the house in the
first place right usually what happens
is because of borrowing because of debt
and the availability of it you get
yourself upside down and then you have
to you have requirements right so if you
go without eating for a couple of days
and you say I’m just going to eat
nothing or and this is assuming that
there’s nothing nothing extra that you
can just stop doing like no more
Starbucks every morning right like
you’ve already dropped Starbucks you’ve
already dropped Netflix yeah and that’s
the first step the first step from the
Dave Ramsey principle is get your budget
in order it’s before the first step and
the first step is $1 thousand emergency
fund so that you don’t have to use debt
so that anything that comes up that
th000 gives you some buffer room so
instead of charging dinner on your
credit card on a credit card use that,
if it’s a dinner you need to go to
because it’s a business related dinner
or something but if you can choose not
to go to dinner at Denny’s tonight just
because you felt like it you make that
choice not to so you get starting to
change the philosophy so he talking
about philosophy so if you need to drop
Starbucks and you need to drop the
restaurants you need to not go to arvs
or to Pizza Hut anymore you can make
those choices and those are choices to
continue being a moocher and go there
and borrow the money to do it with or to
be responsible and say I’m mature and
independent and I don’t have the money
to to pay Pizza Hut for pizza so I’m not
going to eat the pizza tonight I’m going
to make a peanut butter sandwich uhhuh
and since I don’t have any bread I’m
just going to mix peanut butter with
honey and jelly on a plate and eat
that yes that’s the breakfast lunch and
dinner of Champions
yeah so peanut butter and honey I I
heard that someone could live off of
Honey like by itself honey is one of the
only foods that you could live off of
for some time without having anything
else okay yeah maybe I’ve never heard
that could have been clickbait it may be
true it may be true who knows I think I
think honey is so amazing that you could
live off of it maybe the dairy
Association put that out maybe the honey
Association ffa.org people cannot live
on honey
alone well maybe it can leave maybe you
could live on it for three days you
could you could live on milk for quite a
while by your by itself oh yes yes not
honey
milk feeds feeds it’s built to keep
large animals alive that are larger than
us and so if you just drink milk you
can’t drink a gallon at a time where you
just swow up but you can drink it
through the day milk can be your your
food
oh because it’s got enough protein it’s
got the proteins in it it’s got the
proteins so somebody on Reddit says that
um honey and beer both have all of the
nutrients everything necessary to
sustain life sustain life but just not
in right quantities to be able to do it
for a very long time yeah you need a lot
more protein than that to keep your body
going
right yep honey and beer and peanut
butter yeah you could find one thing to
add to
that maybe it’s the pretzel make get
press no um okay so so where were we at
to get to the I mean I gota I gotta get
an answer to this is so what’s the
question I me we we started talking
about what muching is but like what is
the what is the reason we’re defining it
how do you how do you expand Beyond
mooching how do you stop being mure how
do you stop how do you stop that
mentality how’s that mentality changed
and what is the valid product for the
masses of people that doesn’t train them
to be m
right now our consumer product the
Consumer Debt situation the banking
system it it generates continuous
mooching okay yeah it trains people and
locks them in just like going to school
how do you do school I mean we figured
out how to do school without being on
the conveyor boat and you just do
homeschooling you do on schooling you do
it however you want to do it but you’re
responsible for it you don’t have to
follow the prison cycle of the conveyor
belt education yeah and you can still go
to college you and you can go to college
without having to go to the university
and pay them 30,000 or 50,000 a year
there are now college options that you
can pay per class or you can just take
them for free and then probably if you
write the book you can get your honorary
degree and still have a PhD yeah if
you’ll write the book first you can
still call your doctor and you didn’t
pay anything for it you earned $100,000
for writing the book that you studied
for and worked it out and miss your
thesis
and it went out to the public the public
recognized you for it so then you go to
the university and they say we’re glad
to give you an honorary degree it’s
amazing work so it’s possible to break
out of the education system how do you
break out of the mooching money system
out of the public banking system right
public banking system the the status are
we are we including in this problem this
mooching problem um the people that
mooch off of their parents for years and
years as as
adults um right yes yeah so how do you
how do you break that cycle the trust
fund baby even though there’s money
there and he’s going to get it in GNA
get it in the inheritance anyway but
like The Ultimate Gift Jim stovall’s
story you’re not going to get it if you
don’t qualify for it if you can’t handle
it you’re just going to throw it away
and continue 25 ,000 nights in Paris
we’re not going to let you have that
conne that connection yeah his
motivation was getting the money though
he the only reason he did all of those
challenges was so that he could have the
money well that was his first intent
going into it right well F this is what
I have to do by going through all that
stuff you know he he he didn’t know what
it was he didn’t know how much it was
that’s the that’s the storyline it was a
a challenge his grandfather gave him and
he did that video and told him I need
you to do these challenges before I tell
you what it is that that you’re going to
receive because he was the one that was
selected out of all of his descendants I
mean he knew that the other people were
just going to throw it away and they
weren’t they they had no choice no
chance but this guy had a chance of
actually doing it so he said let’s give
him the
chance so you learn and you learn
through that you grow you mature he had
to mature into the position and then if
the lawyer the attorney Rec recognized
that he did everything appropriately
then he would be given the the estate
yeah so you you have to do that you have
to buy that anyway whether they’re
whether you have a grandpa red that’s
given it to you or not um how do you
make those steps or or yeah in real life
what are the steps you know if you have
a a friend that owns a ranch in the
middle of Colorado that’s hundreds of
miles big Maybe that’s that’s good but
if you don’t have that where is where do
you find that where do you find that
experience and um how do you help people
in that path without being their
grandfather what public service so the
thing I talked to Jim still all about
that I’ve talked about for years is and
I I don’t want to I don’t want to make
this specifically about that but a
family bank if a family decides to go
into business with each other to help
each other
succeed but they do it with the debt
structure that’s just locking the family
into a mooching Society yeah if that’s
the only reason the family bank is there
is to to give people a place to borrow
outside of the public banking right
right then you’re still the same thing
it’s just another thing and a horse of
different color the same reason that I
mean someone would invest in that family
Bank to help their sibling or help their
relative is to earn interest on them
so yeah I’m I’m just going to be the
benefactor of their
moing rather than the bank being the
benefactor of the Ming right so how do
you how do you operate a family a
country a family and just it’s easier to
talk about with just a family how do you
operate a family structure that is
interested in helping each other but not
promote a mooching attitude what what do
you how do you do it what’s the
alternative well an alterntive
or any any alternative the like Jim
stovall’s idea you could set up
challenges
requirements like I’m going to I I have
money that I can lend you for this need
of yours and and you can have it after
you’ve read this book or something I
don’t know how do you change someone’s
mind that’s is that’s that’s the
question is how do you change someone’s
mind yeah and you have to do that with
education so I think I think the
education is is a big part of it um the
more you indoctrinate people the more
their minds are going to be changed to
to you it’s indoctrinating to positive
things it’s it’s identifying
Independence and
progress um and you talk challeng though
those don’t disappear automatically just
because I know I can read Jim Slow’s
book and and I we can outline the 12
Steps we can teach that and train that
and try to work it
but if there’s no money in the family
copper so this is what I talked to Jim
Stovall about in regard to the family
bank I said what if you don’t have a a
uh a trust fund what if you don’t have a
large amount of money in the family how
do you build that how do you get it and
so I said here’s the idea the idea is
create a family bank and let the
interest instead of going out to those
financial institutions let the interest
come into the family and that starts
building the Family Assets
so that was the idea but the idea is on
a on a debt mooching principle it is
yeah how do you grow how do how do you
grow a business how does a how did Red I
forgot his last name but James Garner
played that how how the guy in the story
get all of his assets in the first place
he and his attorney knew each other for
40 years as they were building their
assets and you you built a a beneficial
company that that Brew up your you’re
investing in society you’re serving
other people is what you’re doing okay
and earning income so we do that in this
Society by getting a job or getting a
second or third job teaching music uh
teaching music lessons working nights
working on weekends um helping the local
farmer and earning a couple hundred
dollars a month from
him that’s how we develop assets we
develop assets by going out or by
selling something Dave Ramsey says sell
sell everything find out what has value
in your house and sell it get rid of it
right get $30 for that thing that you
bought for $150 the best $30 that you
have you don’t have to store that $150
thing anymore so is that valid I mean
that’s that’s the way people make money
you make money by working or selling
something right right but that doesn’t
change someone’s mind I mean you have to
want to do that you have to have your
mind changed to want to do that that’s
how you build your wealth is you bring
in money or you invest or
you um okay in so it’s a school what
we’re talking about is schooling
education an educational system yeah so
I’m thinking I’m picturing this
educational system um you’re you’re not
you’re not going to get very far with
just assignments like there are so many
kids in the Public School System who are
checked out and they graduate but only
because they knew how to take tests and
and they knew they knew the algorithm
for how to write a good enough essay um
so that doesn’t change them into an
intelligent person automatically like
high school diploma doesn’t mean
intelligence and it doesn’t feed them
Independence doesn’t even mean
Independence it doesn’t even mean
Independence because I
mean if you didn’t go to school you’re
going to juvenile detention so
yeah there’s a great amount of coercion
there and so you and to avoid coercion
in a change your mind about mooching and
Independence and maturity kind of
way you you turn it into a a
conversation and
uh I think I think it takes it’s going
to take some time but you spend more
time individually one-on-one with
somebody and you talk to them and you
share books but then you talk to them
about the books you can’t just give a
book and say okay and here’s your here’s
your quiz you have to discuss the ideas
of the book and you discuss the ideas of
the whole the whole
status of being mature I mean it’s it’s
a life thing not a education thing yeah
you have to live it you have to live it
and you have to live it with it you live
it yourself and you live it with the
person that you’re you’re attempting to
Mo mold into into a mature independent
human
being who is it where did I get this
quote from um the world is full of
educated
derlet so it’s not education we’re
talking about you can still be a nothing
even though you’re a
PhD be nothing in in life and operating
so we don’t want people just to go to
Academia and learn for the sake of
learning you need to learn practical
things starting a business is much more
beneficial to someone than going to
business school yeah trying to run a
business trying to run a construction
company and make it work um that’s
that’s a lot different than reading a
book about the construction business um
right experience so it’s it’s practical
experience it’s the Practical experience
and experience of feeling something and
so I’m thinking more than more than just
getting the next book to read read JY St
let’s get gy st’s book and let’s study
it let’s get the 12 points down let’s
make sure everyone understand each of
the steps and let’s see where we are on
it like you do Dave Ramsey seven steps
baby steps where are you what step are
you on so we could identify the estate
plan you know you’re on step three now
and so when once you get that done and
we’ll move on to step four but that’s
checking the boxes and checking the
boxes doesn’t necessarily help in in
your psychological change but the thing
that caused them to have money I mean
the trust fund is built by serving the
community serving others you have to
have a business that people like and
hopefully that business goes viral and
you start making all kinds of money a
good idea so if you can take every idea
that you think every idea that you think
and see how to monetize it how to
monetize the next idea but it’s it’s
identifying how Society how you can
serve other people well enough that
they’re willing to pay for that service
and it’s easy on a job you say I I’m
willing to work the hours that you
require and I’m going to do the job that
you want and I’ll be dependable and
efficient and you you’re willing to pay
me I’m willing to do the work so that’s
the job that’s the trade-off uh if
you’re deciding to teach music let’s say
and here here’s what I plan to do and is
there anyone in my town or close to me
that that would like to try learning
music learning from me as a teacher and
maybe you get good at it and you you
advance you get better as you go and
then maybe can move to the next town so
now you get a reputation and so there’s
people that will drive for a half hour
to come to you to learn music or to
learn painting or whatever you decide to
do learn how to mix peanut butter and
honey together right the right attitude
with enough protein and milk so that it
gives you a full meal and that’s all you
have to make eat all day long yeah I’m
not sure where where to go now what do
you think what’s the next the next so
how you get out of process how it’s not
necessarily
educ don’t want to be educated D this is
we want to drop the deret part of it
drop the moing and drop the deret yeah
but you have to want to do that in order
to do that so you have to have the
change of mind first how do you get the
change of mind and how do you work on
changing the mind spending more time
with people who have their mind changed
already already who have that philosophy
already that and that that might be a
luck thing most of the time because I
mean you’re you’re lucky that I’m lucky
that you and Mom think the way you do I
don’t know if I could be where I’m at
now
philosophically without without that
Foundation First yeah right the fact
that that homeschool was just part of
our life conveyor belt was never really
part of it right and and work ethic and
um
good prison wasn’t an option for you
right so how do you increase the luck I
well is about where did I get it do I
have any I do have an uncle who has a
child that’s been in prison his whole
life right so I’ve got a cousin in
prison and the luck of him what caused
him to be that way I don’t know that
there was anything because the uncle is
just fine my uncle’s fine that’s who the
rest of their kids are very stable and
strong and effective it’s just that one
that has has had issues yeah did that
cousin spend a lot of time in formative
years with people of that philosophy
that prison is an option philosophy most
likely he was in a broken home that he
was he was a a child of a first Mar
marriage that broke up uh not very
friendly yeah and really didn’t have a
home environment so the luck yeah it may
be lucky that you happen to grow up with
Mom and Dad at home or if you grow up
with Mom somewhere else and Dad
somewhere else and they both don’t
really want to have you yeah there’s
there’s probably an issue and that may
have may caused a lot of his issues um
so you you have to that so that’s the
education you have to know what type of
environment you want your family to
operate in what mentality you’re really
searching for if it’s Independence and
maturity you have to focus on training
that but it’s not just book learning if
it’s just book learning we can read I
mean I’ve got a thousand books on my
shelf probably in my office I have a
thousand books I probably have 3,000 in
the other room you can focus on reading
all those books but that’s not going to
help you internalize it you have to
internalize the book you have to
internalize the idea by talking about it
um and by operating it yeah so like Jan
stovall’s millionaire M
millionaire millionaire map that’s his
that’s the like the title of his book
The Millionaire map it’s a map and he
says here’s the steps and anyone can do
it anyone can get to that million status
let’s just start and work on these plans
and you come up with ideas and you build
a business I think it’s business
oriented
yeah but can you do that if you if you
haven’t had the if you don’t have the
philosophy no that’s and that’s got to
be what the book talks about is teaching
you the philosophy teaching you how to
think about the millionaire map
millionaire mindset The Millionaire Next
Door there’s there’s all kinds of books
that you can get all of them you can
study them but if you studied them read
them and you how to cross reference them
and you have that knowledge in your head
you’re still going to be a deric if you
don’t do something
yeah you still don’t have any traction
you got to have traction and so it’s the
traction that you need to work on
instead of the banking so I I think to
build an estate so I guess that’s the
overall question is how do you build a
trust fund okay what’s the what’s the
way that a family becomes a trust fund
family without cultivating
mooching right to drop from the muchi
mentality muchi mentality is and and
that may be that you have one business
that operates well so red in the in the
story they from that gift he’s there all
of his kids five or six kids of his they
all just were boers they were living off
of his businesses and they were running
it they were trying to run it but not
really good they they didn’t have
anything so he he handed out a business
to each of the kids and that’s what they
got one guy got the ranch one guy got
the the dairy farm and you know whatever
it was that that he handed out yeah and
that’s up to them whether they succeed
at it and he says I know they’re not
going to succeed at it they they haven’t
did nothing while I was around I was
running everything still so certainly
they’re going to they’re going to fail
in the next few years um and there’s
this standard statement with businesses
it’s shirt SLE Shir shirt sleeves to
shirt sleeves in three generations so
the first one builds it in shur sleeves
builds the business it becomes strong
and then hands it to his kids as a
strong going business but the kids don’t
really know how to manage it they don’t
grow it beyond that point they’re kind
of maintaining it and on a plateau and
it starts failing by the time the third
generation the grandkids have any
connection to it either the business is
already blown up or if they hand it to
them on that same Plateau that kid
throws it away and yeah goes back down
to Sher no money so you start with no
money if you build something it’s hard
to have the Next Generation continue to
grow it so that’s what needs to be
taught it’s entrepreneurship perhaps um
okay Dave Ramsey calls it entree
leadership that’s his group on that side
but it’s it’s
entrepreneurship how does that help
someone there are a number of businesses
out there that can be operated uhuh and
if you provide good service instead of
borrowing money you operate one those
businesses for a period of time we were
talking about phone sales maybe there
are phone sale opportunities that if you
have the right attitude you can go into
it you can actually accomplish something
and make $1,000 a week instead of
borrowing $ th000 a week from some
yeah and you can do it between the hours
of 9900 pm and 1:00 am if you’re calling
Hawaii because that’s standard hours
there or if you call Europe you can do
it from 3:00 a.m to 7M
right just I mean we’re connected large
enough as a world you can do that yeah
and so maybe that’s what you do those
opportunities instead of saying as a
family we want to build this by putting
it all in debt and keeping all luches
because that that’s all it does that’s
all the banking banking institution can
do once you’re once you’re of the the
trust fund $20 million mentality you you
no longer use Banks the way everyone
else used us a bank yeah
your checking account there you keep
10,000 your checking account or a
thousand you know yeah 10 you keep
enough money so that whatever you write
a check on or what are your debit cards
your your cash flow works you you’re
using the bank for a cash flow
institution as opposed to a a lending
institution so I had a crazy idea the
other week um and James thought it was
stupid I don’t know may was stupid it’s
a crazy idea none nonetheless um so in
30 years my house is going to be paid
off and I will have however much it’s
worth in 30 years I’m going to have that
maybe a million maybe it’ll be worth a
million dollars in 30 years I mean
easily yeah that’s how houses go but I’m
going to have the equity in the house
the typic the typical house is going to
grow up 4% per year but 30 years time
four times 4 is 120% so it’s going to be
right now it’s worth 500,000 it’s going
to be 1.2 million 1.4 million something
like that okay guaranteed yes 1.4 Milli
30 years yeah I’m gonna be a millionaire
in 30 in 30 years your house your house
is gon To Be A
Millionaire do it or not you might lose
that house but the house will be yeah
now um when I die and when my husband
dies this this house will be part of our
family Trust and it will go to the kids
they can live in it or they can sell it
for the money they probably will sell it
for the money because I imagine that my
kids are going to be independent and
mature and have their own houses that
they’ve probably paid off at that point
like hopefully when I’m 95 or 100
they’ve got their own paid off houses
you know but it will be it will be for
them for my kids okay um and so my idea
was how about I give give my kids the
opportunity to buy in to this to this
inheritance um and they can use their
income right now to help pay off the
house and then I keep track of what
portion of the total loan they’ve paid
and then that at the end will be their
inheritance their the portion of the
equity that’s that a stupid
idea I think that’s genius that’s that’s
kind of what I’ve been looking for has
been that type of idea to change it
because in in what what I’ve been
thinking about is the estate really that
runs the family bank but instead of a
family Bank you don’t have a family Bank
you got to have an entrepreneural that
doesn’t doesn’t identify to how to how
to help people but it maybe it does
they’re investing in you so you’re
giving your kids the opportunity to
invest in you in your estate in the in
the estate and and for that they get
credit in the estate so a part of that
house becomes Bears the percentage if
you keep it as a percentage so let’s say
over 10 years you have a daughter that
puts in an equivalent of 10% of the
value of that home that loan payoff and
so you say Okay 10% of this Equity now
is yours before it split up with your
other siblings and grandkids and
everyone else you get paid back that 10%
Equity so the house sells for 1.5
million so there 150,000 that goes right
there first right there it’s yours
before it Chang on paper yeah and it’s
reced and it’s recording against the
estate so the the thought on the banking
the debt standpoint is if there’s a loan
that that loan is Forgiven at as part of
the estate distribution so let’s say a
person gets to the end and he’s been a
moocher and he’s mooched off
$200,000 that
$200,000 is seen as an asset to the
estate so it’s forgiven that debts
forgiven the mucher doesn’t have to pay
it back and the first $200,000 is I mean
that’s that’s his benefit out of the
estate the other person who isn’t a
mucher gets the $400,000 because now
this person is taken out of the out of
the inheritance side of that the the
200,000 that that was the debt it’s
shared with the others who weren’t in
debt yeah they get they get the money
that he received earlier I guess is how
that would work so the one child that
has 200,000 in debt and there’s 4 others
let’s say the other four get the 200
that first 200,000 out of the out of the
estate and then after that 200,000 they
share in what’s ex accessive yeah so if
they bought if you give them the chance
to assist in loan payoffs as an
investment for future equity in the
estate when people do that is there
enough incentive for future Equity
position yeah you have to be
um thinking forward thinking about your
future I think you have to care about
what’s happening in your future you’d
have to have excess funds to do that
first you would right um and I imagine
for the next two years my my older kid
is going to have excess funds like that
right um before they start family and
start rolling towards independ
responsibilities rolling towards
independence you either put that money
in a savings account you’re using your
financial banking institution which is a
ling institution but they don’t want to
use that we want to use the
family for that yeah um is there is is
there any opportunity for that
individual they they put 10% in over 10
years can they get that 10% back out
before they before before I die yeah
before before the home is sold is it
possible to get that 10 % back out right
I and that would be in the form of like
a home equity loan I imagine that would
be yeah and how do you gauge the value
of that Equity I mean it was there for
10 years did it increase in value is
there a um yeah you just have a
percentage you’d be like here in in I
mean you need you need this money and uh
let’s get an appraisal on the house and
you your 10% is worth this money much
now yes you have to go through an
appraisal set or you just say this is
what the property tax evaluator says
it’s value that let’s use that when you
start paying it off that’s the valuation
you’re buying into and that’s the
percentage as we start so anytime the
property tax valuation is going to be
what we use down the road or an
appraisal we could I guess you could do
either either of them the valuation is
always going to be there whether it’s
accurate or not but so that’s that idea
I thought of that kind of as like how
can I avoid just giving my kids free
money you know yeah when I die like I
don’t know I mean i’ I’ve always been
against I’ve always had a philosophy
against mooching anyway like it it hurts
my stomach when I think of people that I
know getting things for free from just
just because they can
yeah um because I mean they’re it’s
going to be given to someone maybe like
going around and and snatching up all of
the free stuff that you can and asking
for things from your relatives because
you know that they can afford it and it
I’ve always been against it and uh and
so I’m just imagining well I’m trying to
figure out like I don’t know if I’m
actively trying to figure it out it’s
just an idea that came in into my head
is what what can I do to avoid my kids
just automatically receiving
$100,000 each or however much each yeah
it’ll it’ll be 500,000 if the if the
house is still there and we have no
other debts I mean it’s it’s a
substantial amount in today’s
money right um and so the the goal is to
build that substantial amount how do you
get a family to consciously build to 20
ion dollar right and and what what is
the goal yeah what’s the goal for them
to do with that inheritance that they
receive after I mean you kind of have to
start that before you die long before
you die you have to start the the
building of wealth and it’s not an
inheritance when you die it’s a process
it’s a whole thing with the whole family
that’s the passes on that’s why I called
Jim stoval with the idea of the concept
I said your book starts with someone
that’s a billionaire what if you don’t
start with a billionaire and you get
that same process going what would the
book look like to to go from shirt
sleeves to the the SE sea Suite have
number of Corporations operate how do
you get how do you get that thing built
to do the Donald Trump moved from from
Mil money to to everything yeah or JD
bance I mean he’s he is the bigger
picture of of going from nothing and he
just went to school he just went m
military he got a regular income and
then GI bills sent him to school so he
got a way to get to school and then
started building businesses and then
went in public service so that that path
is available for everybody nobody really
talks about it we don’t talk about it
and that’s to the entrepreneurship side
your daughter is working because she
wants to has she is is that work
environment advancing because she
Advanced faster are you asking
specifically right now can she Advance
not
necessarily is that a question a family
should be interested in and and
assisting in I mean if if I happen to
see a position that that she potentially
would like should the grandfather come
in with an idea that says why don’t why
don’t you look at this where would you
be willing to look at this yes I believe
yes I think that would be fantastic if
everyone in the family we looking out
for everyone else’s wellbeing in that
way not wellbeing but their
entrepreneurship their career
advancement the entree leadership of the
family yeah well that’s the well-being
though I mean wellbeing is more like
welfare though I that’s what I do yeah
well you guys doing okay you guys
healthy eating right we don’t care about
eating out for everyone else is wello
well doing yeah wello not
well-being I I don’t care if you how you
how you eat necessarily and maybe that’s
part of it too because home production
and storage you know if we’re going to
be healthy you got to be able to be
healthy to that’s that zero of here you
got to be healthy if you’re going to
serve the family take care of yourself
but the First Community your family
should be able to serve each other and
help each other with a steps that are
necessary to succeed fully succeed yeah
you become a real tight-knit
Community um so the trust fund is it’s
good if the grand grandfather let’s say
just the old guy the red builds all his
businesses and with he and his attorney
they’ve done that by themselves and they
didn’t share that knowledge with any of
their kids would the kids have been
better if they shared that knowledge
with them if they had a board meeting
with all 20 of them every month and said
this is what we’re working on what’s the
idea the next concept we’re going to try
to do is sell this piece of the of the
ranch and buy a shopping Center downtown
LA yes assuming that everyone in the
family is is of the same
philosophy um as reminds me of the peaky
blinders family meetings okay right I
think I think that that whole idea
having a family family board meeting for
the Family Trust
Foundation uh everyone working together
to build the wealth it’s maybe someday
you could have it be everyone’s
full-time job is to manage the family’s
wealth right and and and that’s that’s
what trust funds do they they have one
of the kids earn 50,000 a year just by
managing the Investments involved in the
trust fund and that’s that’s really how
the how the child that puts 10% into
your house gets the money back at some
point because the if everyone is
successful excessively successful and
everyone’s making $20,000 a month and
they have no debt there is an excessive
amount of funds that you’re building a
trust fund yeah and then you have to
find where to put it where where are you
going to donate to and mean and that’s
something people talk about their
charitable Foundation what what charity
or what project are we going to put
money into this month because we have
$10,000 that needs to go somewhere and
we’re agreeing to spend it out as a
family so let’s discuss where do you
want to go where do you what do you want
it to help yeah um and maybe just find
the the local person that needs a roof
on their house and say okay we’re going
to put the roof on this guy’s house
because there’s no way they can do it
and we don’t want them to go out the
debt and we just want to provide that
roof so you pay the company get a new
roof and you say enjoy it h but that’s
the service the community but the only
reason you have 10,000 that month to
spend is because your family as a group
made 500,000 that month and only spent
$50,000 to live yeah so if you account
for it you don’t have to borrow money
and expect to earn interest from each
other but you do have so what it what it
is is helping people’s business succeed
mind each other’s business instead of
the mind your own business
concept yeah and be open enough to mind
to let someone else mind your business a
board a boardroom family a board
operated so when your daughter gets a
job that job is discussed with every
uncle and aunt and grandp parent and say
what how how can I what’s my best
options from here moving forward the
child needs to be interested in the
advice they get from the board right can
you can you have can this operate
successfully if you have family members
who just want nothing to do with any of
it want to live their own life and and
keep everything private they don’t want
to share opinions and they don’t want
other people sharing their opinions with
them that they don’t want to be part of
the community so in talking about our
community service they don’t they don’t
want to take level two to talk anything
about a level one thing they want to
keep it separate yeah so what we’re
talking about in this concept is like
banking if you run a business your
business is off in level two so people
that say it don’t want to be part of
that Association how do you deal with
them inside State you can still run it
you just run it separately yeah they’re
just not part of it maybe there’s a
standard inheritance that they will get
but they’re just not going to be
included in the the whole trust in the
business side of it right the wealth
building in their kids will have still
the opportunity to come in if they want
to but it’ll be at a lesser benefit as a
result of their parents un willingness
to participate where do you put money so
that’s that’s what he said where you put
money is towards other people’s
obligations um you’re using excess so
people who receive income more than
their more than their needs so they’re
they’re living well within their means
um the individual zeroth person Silo
cart is saying I’m gonna be a miser and
I’m not gonna this is my money and it’s
going in my savings account and I’m
going to come back be in control of it
so I’m not going to share it with my
siblings or my parents or my kids or my
grandkids it’s my money and I’m going to
use it until I die when I die then I no
longer have control of it so the state
will decide where it has to go where my
Coastal relatives are who deserves to
have that money whether they deserve it
or not so this it’s a way of this
concept is a way of saying if you if
you’re okay not putting that in The Silo
let’s just record it in the estate so
you’re still open an EST State book
you’re you’re banking but you’re not
banking on debt and interest payments
you’re banking on Equity business Equity
perhaps uhuh so if a if a brother or a
son needs money to start a business and
you can put money into that business
you’re recording a percentage of that
based on the current value and then what
it grows to it it grows to that um
that’s just an accounting question of
how you account for or what someone put
towards that success of that business or
that job say they’re you need to buy a
certain clothes to participate in this
job you need steel tow boots and that
cost $200 a pair so and buy steel toe
boots for somebody to go out and get the
job that they need to get um it’s not NE
it’s not alone okay but it’s using
assets using assets to
someone how do you and you attract that
how do you attract that yeah that’s not
Ling like if yeah if you’re doing that
you’re not you’re not really considering
it charity or
mooching you’re if you’re buying someone
something that they need to advance
their life it’s like you you’re it’s an
investment in their life but you’re not
going to get anything outside of karma
like you you pay it forward in your life
and I’m not getting anything out of this
except for good feelings and I don’t
know maybe somebody might think that
their mansion in heaven is a little bit
bigger because they did something good
but so that’s why that’s how we do it in
in society right now that’s how we do it
in society now um if you build a
business together you’re expect a
partnership you form a partnership
you’re expected that that you’re
each provide information or or resources
to that business and the business is
going to then be split up or income and
everything else comes back and it’s
split up between the two of you expenses
are split up between the two of you as a
partnership right so if you operate the
family instead of instead of just if you
call the Family a business um I I don’t
know how to get past that step you buy
boots for somebody it’s a consumable
item but it’s like the expens is in a
business they they have to be paid and
that do the profits come back to pay for
those boots or you hold hold a you can
identify a certain position Head Hunters
that find people jobs there there’s a
plan and actually it’s in student loans
now I forgot what the term is called but
it’s um you’re paying a percentage of
your future income back to the student
loan or you if you’re hired on a
position you’re making 5 ,000 a year you
owe 10% to the Head Hunter that got you
that position for the first for five
years yeah you know so you have a given
time frame that you’re that you’re
paying back on that status it’s called
income sharing income sharing instead of
debt or student loans okay so maybe
there’s an income sharing agreement if I
don’t have the money to get this
education that I need to get this
position but I I want to get this
position and we help give that position
then you just take an income sharing for
back to the family business it’s not a
family bank it’s not paying anything
else it’s paying a portion of what you
what your advancement is back to what
what had to be paid to get you there H
and then people pay it back so it’s got
to be but more but income sharing it’s
not interest it’s kind of like a loan
it’s kind of like a
loan you’re recording
it you’re agreeing though so that’s
where I we start with mooching you’re
going to mooch and maybe you’ll pay it
back maybe you won’t maybe it’ll just
come out of the estate or maybe we’ll
forget to record it uh it’s a GI um gift
is still mooching but what if in this
income sharing situation like you get
the pos position and you’re paying the
Head Hunter and then you decide you
don’t want to work anymore and so you
stop you still pay the Head Hunter 10%
of your non-income now like how is that
guaranteed to the Head Hunter has the
potential for loss as well yeah and
that’s the that’s the idea with the with
the school student loans so the student
the school has a chance of losing money
and because part of those student loan
Arrangements is if you make more than
300 thou or what 80,000 a year they put
a a reasonable cap the average earnings
in this industry is 880,000 for a
starting wage so if you’re own if you
start in this industry over $80,000 then
you owe 10% for the per for five years
and so potentially they get $120,000
$150,000 job and they’re paying 15,000
back and they end up paying a lot more
back than this the cost was but the
other potential is they get us $50,000 a
year job because they just they’re not
able to do it they they can’t get the
80,000 it’s not available or for
whatever reason they pay nothing back to
the student loan and the time expires
and this and the family doesn’t get
anything back school gets nothing back
for their investment all right so the
it’s on the school to make sure they’re
educated well enough and that they know
what the market is and they can get them
the position they help that person
succeed in their position because the
school needs to get paid back so the
family right in buying boots and
education for somebody is interested in
helping as a board of directors for that
person as long as they’re willing to
listen and meet the objectives you know
you really benefit by reading this
millionaire map book with your business
what you’re trying to run right now so
I’m going to recommend that you read
this would you be willing to do that
hopefully the person says yeah I’ll read
that yeah and try to make things better
in my business my work environment get
the next promotion that comes up easily
be overqualified for it know that I’m
overqualified and then ask for the
promotion and they don’t have any option
but to accept it yeah you need to move
up to that position we’re going to raise
your rate in dollar an hour so yeah if
that were put together as a structure as
opposed to a banking there’s a
possibility that the family gets nothing
done that the person just dies out in a
consumable idea but the family is
particularly interested in the plan
being a success right in every plan
being and so right and so everyone will
and we will be kind of really for effort
we we do that already and people do that
in society you’re wanting to help your
sister be successful
in their in her business she’s just
starting or the career she’s just
entering and right offer whatever advice
she can you whatever help that this
would just structure it that there is a
a Family Trust a family business the
business of the family business to make
sure every member of that business is
operating their full potential yeah
that’s that’s the business of the family
is everyone making sure everyone is
operating at their full potential
and being effective yeah so I think
we’ve we’ve come to the conclusion a
bank is a moing institution a business
is not a moing institution and yeah and
if you just identify that they own a
piece of that business so kids and the
estate the business of a family is the
estate that it’s gosh I don’t I don’t
have that connection yet you know what
the business of the family
is is this topic deserves a lot more
thinking and talk I think we got to the
point we need it needs to be business
type entrepreneurial it needs to be
directed that way not just education
education is too too shallow yes so to
change the philosophy you need action
behind it that’s what actually changes
your mind on things as if you’re working
on it you’re acting on it right it’s
care it’s the care and Entrepreneurship
and the
fordship allowing the family to operate
as a board of directors their individual
life and indicated what if someone
doesn’t want to participate that way but
it’s just too much information for them
to share I don’t want to tell you
anything about what I do at my work
because it’s all private um yeah could
just let that person operate outside
they don’t get the benefit of of the
family likey blinders which if if a
person goes off Rogue and does their own
thing they’re cut out of the family
money now don’t have the Family
Protection behind you anymore and I
don’t know if it’s necessary protection
I that’s think about it because it needs
to not be a mom that’s the way moms are
all designed around this family business
this family business has to be not a mob
right how do you make it how do you make
it reasonable and not be a
mob not be the Godfather type idea so
yeah well do you have any lawyer friends
you could bring into this
conversation plenty of lawyer friends
but is Jim stoval still alive yeah he is
call up I could get Jim’s opinion on
this so you know I talked to you 10
years ago about this or five years ago
one it was is it was probably 2012 12
years ago when I talk to him but yeah
he’s still alive he’s right he’s got new
books I still get his weekly email
letter so I’m sure he’ll remember me be
easy oh yeah continue that conversation
oh yeah it’s the family Bank
guy I knew that was going to Fay all all
the way yeah
whatever um so that that at least I’ve
talked it through we’ve got that that’s
okay okay we’ve been under two hours so
that’s and and we’ll still have more to
say about this too still we barely
started we barely started the concept so
yeah but at least we identified what the
concept is and what the challenge is why
it’s such a problem and where we where
we could possibly look for our next um
inspiration the next guidance that’s
what people are always looking for and
if we can if the situation the system
that we create can provide that
inspiration and Leadership and Advising
internally in a family that operates
that’s what I’d hope to be the case
everyone has things they tried and
everyone needs to know what everyone’s
tried that will allow us to be much
better yeah okay very cool he hey thanks
for tuning in I really appreciate you
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